In this episode of Behind the Prop, Bobby interviews DPE Wally Mulhern in Ask the DPE Part I. They cover what makes an applicant look ready before walking in the door, including flight time reasonableness on the 8710, IACRA applications, solo versus PIC time, and required cross country, night, and instrument time. Wally shares signs that someone was sent too early, such as last-minute urgency and poor planning. They discuss communication preferences like email or text with full details including FTN, paperwork mistakes like missing logged ground school and class totals, dress and appearance expectations, pet peeves including answering the question directly, whether DPEs try to intimidate applicants, the meaning of questions like are you sure about that, open book orals, looking things up, maneuver tolerances per the ACS preamble, asking for breaks, and whether the DPE hopes applicants pass.
00:00:00
Behind the Prop Intro
[Intro music and announcer]
00:00:23
Bobby Doss
What's up, Wally?
00:00:24
Wally Mulhearn
Hey, Bobby, how are ya?
00:00:26
Wally Mulhearn
I am fantastic as always. This week I think is gonna be a very popular show. We do a lot of talkin' about check rides and stuff, but it is- Crazy that everyone wants more, and this week is more. We are gonna call this episode Ask the DPE, everything you wanted to ask before your check ride. We hope this breaks the internet.
00:00:49
Wally Mulhearn
In short, I think most applicants spend weeks worrying about what the DP is gonna ask, what one mistake might mean, whether they can look something up, and whether the examiner is secretly trying to trip them up. Today, I'm gonna ask you questions, Wally, and I'm gonna give some feedback and thoughts as well. I wanna know your pet peeves, I wanna know what makes you nervous in the right seat, I wanna know what makes you relaxed, and I wanna know what you wish every applicant understood before checkride day.
00:01:18
Wally Mulhearn
Today, you don't get to Hide behind the ACS. I wanna know exactly what's going through your head, the DPE. So round one is gonna be before you walk in the room. Alright.
00:01:40
Bobby Doss
Are you ready?
00:01:57
Wally Mulhearn
I am ready.
00:01:57
Bobby Doss
Are you a least bit nervous a little bit?
00:02:07
Wally Mulhearn
A little bit, yeah. Yeah, alright. It's your check right there now. Alright.
00:02:07
Bobby Doss
Before you walk in the door, what makes you think the applicant is ready before you even ask the first question?
00:02:09
Wally Mulhearn
This is before the student walks in the door, you see them for the first time.
00:02:11
Bobby Doss
What does that first impression mean to you as a DPE?
00:02:11
Wally Mulhearn
Before I even walk in the door, when, when I can go through you know, one reason we ask for the FTM is so we can take a look at the paperwork ahead of time. And so I'll do that, and I will go through, and I will look at their application, their eighty-seven ten. And the first thing I do is, is Oh, I won't say the first thing, but I, I get down to the record of flight time, and I, I just make sure that there's a reasonableness there.
00:03:03
Wally Mulhearn
And, and I, I add flight times up for a, you know, for a private pilot applicant, in other words, today they're a student pilot, and tomorrow on the checkride day, hopefully they're gonna become a pilot, private pilot. But I look at things like solo time should equal Pilot and command time. Now there's, there's one little caveat on that, but in general, solo time should equal pilot and command time. And I'll tell you the one time that it might not equal is if they have failed a checkride.
00:04:16
Wally Mulhearn
So they took their private pilot checkride, they are pilot in command, and the, the result was unsatisfactory. So they're gonna have whatever that checkride is a little bit more PIC time than solo pi-time, but in general Solo time should equal PIC time. Solo time or PIC plus dual received should equal total time.
00:04:37
Bobby Doss
And you know, then of course I go across and I look and I make sure, okay, did they have the required amount of solo cross country time?
00:04:37
Wally Mulhearn
Do they have the required amount of solo time, the required amount of night time, instrument time, and, and, and so forth. Now You know, when, when those numbers are all exact does it, does a little flag come up in my head and think, "Oh, wow, that's, that's interesting that they have exactly three hours of nighttime, exactly three hours of instrument time." But who am I to To doubt that, I mean, it's, it's possible. And so, you know, we just, we just go with it.
00:04:46
Bobby Doss
If, if that's, if you attest to it, then you know, it's, it's kind of like a testimony in a court, okay?
00:04:47
Wally Mulhearn
If that's what you say, then, then, okay. so I, you know, I would say that I would say you know, when an applicant writes to me and says Hey you know, I'm looking for a check ride.
00:04:56
Wally Mulhearn
You know, y- probably the easiest way to communicate, at least with me, and every examiner might be different or probably is different, the, the best way to me is email or text you may get lost in the fray in a, in a voice message, but when, when you email me and text me, you know, please tell me your name, tell me what you want. Hey, my name is so-and-so. I am looking for an instrument airplane checkride you know, the first week of September.
00:05:18
Bobby Doss
I'll be, I fly out of X Y Z flight school and here's my F T N, and, and that really helps, because if you don't tell me what your F T N, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna write you back and I'll say, "Are you fully ready and signed off?" And I would say, of, of the people that tell me they are signed off I'd say a good forty percent of them aren't signed off, because they'll say, "Yes, I'm completely signed off." Well, the first thing I do is I go into IACRA, I plug their FTN in there, and again, about forty percent of the time, there's no application.
00:06:22
Wally Mulhearn
So when we say signed off, not only do I mean that signature in the logbook, but I also mean the application is in IACRA and ready to go.
00:06:22
Bobby Doss
So what is the biggest sign that someone might be sent to you too early?
00:06:37
Wally Mulhearn
I think, I think a lot of times we might over prepare applicants, looking for perfection maybe, I don't know, that's my biasy.
00:06:37
Bobby Doss
What, what is the first sign to you that maybe someone's been sent too early?
00:06:37
Wally Mulhearn
Well We, we get this a lot, especially this time of year, because what we get is I will get a text or a phone call or an email, and they'll say, "Um, let's say it's Monday, August 15th, and they'll say, "Um, Hey Wally, this, this is so-and-so. I got a student and he's looking for his private pilot check ride. He leaves for school on Friday the 19th, so we need a check ride in, in the next three days.
00:07:17
Wally Mulhearn
And then they'll, they'll go into the little bit of the sob story. If he doesn't have his private pilot check ride, he, he has to you know, do private- We can do it all in my riddle. That's what I hear. Yeah, yeah. and, you know, there's an old saying that says, "Poor planning on your, your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part." And, and sometimes I'm able to accommodate that you know, and it's usually just dumb luck that somebody canceled.
00:07:46
Wally Mulhearn
I'll say, "Yeah, actually, I've got Wednesday morning available." But I would say by and large, the, the answer's gonna be, "Ah, I'm full up." Yeah, it's, it's just not fair to the people who have it scheduled for me to call up and cancel them 'cause some, some guy needs to go to you know, Bimbo or, or whatever university and and Start college next, you know, in a few days.
00:08:25
Bobby Doss
So that's, that's a flag, you know, I, I want to say, was there a sense of urgency back in June or maybe early July?
00:08:29
Wally Mulhearn
And I, I don't know, I mean, I can't, I can't read minds, but I'm gonna say probably no, there probably wasn't a sense of urgency, but all of a sudden someone looked at the calendar and said, "Whoa, we've only got ten days, we gotta get going." So, we had one of these this, this past month, and I, I, I've had these every year, but I had, I had some creativity this year.
00:08:34
Wally Mulhearn
So if there's fly school owners or other people out there that might wanna use this idea, we had people lined up, and I, I, I said, "I'm not offering this yet, but..." I'm offering it to you, the person who's leaving, if you wanna buy someone out of their check ride, I'll let you buy them out, and you tell me what you're willing to buy for, and I'll call two people and offer it to 'em. First come, first serve. and it wouldn't work for him, which I thought was very interesting.
00:09:07
Wally Mulhearn
So he couldn't do it no matter what, and it wasn't really about the money, it was more about the scheduling. So I, I was gonna pull my hair out trying to help him, and then he still People buy other people's check rides out for them if they want to 'cause we kinda manage all the slots for our students at our school. But it was this kinda unique thought that I had, and it, it almost worked, but it didn't quite work out.
00:09:33
Wally Mulhearn
Oh, well, I had one, I had one a text just yesterday we had this transaction. So we're recording today is September 2nd so I, I think this text came to me on August 31st. On yesterday, September 1st, I responded to the CFI and I said, "Uh, the, the, the, the text was something to the effect of, 'I have a student who needs a checkride. he is fully ready, signed off in IACRA anytime in September.'" And I said, "Yeah, I can get 'em done Friday afternoon September 5th.
00:10:22
Wally Mulhearn
" And pretty soon I got back and he said. Well, you haven't seen the last two weeks of September. So I said, "Well, okay. So I, I don't, I don't know what the problem was. And, and maybe, you know, maybe they had a, a, a doctor's appointment. Maybe, maybe, maybe so. And, and I get that. I get that. he didn't really allude to what the, the conflict was, but you know, and, and me personally, and, and again, every examiner is different, you know, we are basically independent contractors.
00:11:04
Wally Mulhearn
I don't schedule more than two weeks out, and my reasoning is If I have if I schedule six weeks out, let's say I schedule six weeks out, which I, I just can't do for my airline schedule, but if I did and I had a weather cancellation today, then I have to tell, tell this this person that, "Okay, yeah, I can get you in in six weeks." So for that reason, I don't, you know, I, I don't schedule again more than two weeks out, and that way- If we do have a weather cancellation, worst case, I can probably get the person in in two weeks.
00:11:40
Wally Mulhearn
It's usually earlier, you know, you can usually you know, if it's just a flight only, maybe, maybe that day that I have two multi-engine rides, which don't take as long maybe I can fit you in at the beginning or the end, so that's, you know, that's another option. Probably this could take six hours of show content with this, but it's great stuff.
00:12:06
Bobby Doss
What paperwork or endorsement mistakes drive DPEs crazy?
00:12:15
Wally Mulhearn
I would say a lack of logged ground school is probably number one.
00:12:23
Bobby Doss
a lot of times- You know, I'll look in the logbook and I'll say, "Do you have a log of ground school?" And they'll say, "Oh, no, but we, we did ground school." And I'll say, "You know, the, the regulation says you must receive and log ground school." Now, there's no- That's, that's really all it says.
00:12:51
Wally Mulhearn
It doesn't say you gotta ten hours, doesn't say you gotta have one tenth of an hour. it just says you need to have received and logged ground school. that is, that is one again, maybe the, the time's not adding up. There's also a column or a section on the eighty-seven ten Called class totals, and the FAA wants to know how much PIC and instruction received time you have in either single-engine land or multi-engine land. So you know, we, we should see some numbers.
00:13:47
Wally Mulhearn
Those, those get left out a lot. So you know, I'll have the applicant you know, and if I get, if I, if, if the application is in and I get the FTM a couple days ahead of time. I'll usually text the applicant and I'll say, "Hey, you're-- you don't have any single engine land dual receive time in the class totals column of your logbook," and you know, they can fix it. At, at that point, you do not need-- if you've already been signed off, you don't need the instructor.
00:14:22
Wally Mulhearn
I do have to send the application back to you, and then you can go in, you can make the modification, and that's all, all it needs to be done.
00:14:23
Bobby Doss
No Does dress and/or appearance affect anything or matter to the DPE?
00:14:31
Wally Mulhearn
I, I'm, I'm gonna say yes or no, yes or no, but a-and we're gonna go somewhere right with this that's a little bit touchy.
00:14:48
Bobby Doss
And I even, when I, when I saw this question, I thought, "Oh boy, should I go here?" but I am 'cause we're-- I'm just trying to be transparent.
00:14:57
Bobby Doss
The fact is I, in general, in general, and I'm generalizing, I'm old enough to be most of my applicants' grandfather, okay?
00:15:28
Wally Mulhearn
So I would say to the applicant-applicants, and I'm, okay, I'm, here I go, I'm really speaking to the young ladies.
00:15:28
Bobby Doss
Act like you're going to visit your grandfather and your grandfather's friends, okay?
00:15:39
Wally Mulhearn
I'm just gonna leave it there.
00:15:40
Bobby Doss
I do know of cases where examiners have refused check rides based on the lack of dress from, from certain applicants, okay?
00:15:40
Wally Mulhearn
dress professionally.
00:15:40
Bobby Doss
Can you dress professionally wearing shorts?
00:15:40
Bobby Doss
Absolutely.
00:15:42
Bobby Doss
You know can you dress professionally wearing shorts and a T-shirt?
00:15:42
Wally Mulhearn
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm fine with that. I don't, I don't look at a, you know, a lot of people wear a airplane-type T-shirt. I don't have a problem with that. I, I just had a young man a couple weeks ago in a full suit. I mean, coat and tie and everything.
00:16:09
Bobby Doss
A few weeks ago?
00:16:14
Wally Mulhearn
That was hot. Yes, yes. and he was at your flight school, by the way. Oh, wow. now, I, I, gosh, I appreciate the effort. Now, I would say it was probably a little overkill but I appreciate the effort, you know, because what that tells me is He respects the process, he does. and, and I felt, I felt so underdressed because I think that particular day I was wearing shorts, and I, I actually apologized to him.
00:16:29
Wally Mulhearn
I said, "Man, you're all dressed up, and, and here I am, wearing my typical fishing shirt and shorts, my behind-the-prop fishing shirt, by the way, and, and shorts." And so we got a good laugh out of that. but dress so that you're comfortable in the airplane. You know, i-it's probably most, at least here probably nine months out of the year it's hot in the airplanes, so dress appropriately for comfort.
00:17:04
Bobby Doss
you know, and, and I, by and large, most people wear you know, a, a polo shirt type shirt or you know, and I, I laugh because a lot of, a lot of people I see When we get up to go fly, I, I, I might see some really wild socks, and, and, and they're usually-- and I'll always comment on them, and I'll go Those are lucky socks, aren't they?
00:17:29
Bobby Doss
And I'll go, "Yeah, how'd you know?
00:17:37
Wally Mulhearn
" I said, "Well, most people usually don't wear purple socks, but I, I think it's kinda funny, and, and I, you know, I enjoy having a little fun, fun with it. So, so you do, I do see some, quite a few lucky socks. so, yeah, I, I think, a-and if, if, if you're getting dressed and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're wondering if it's I like that.
00:18:26
Bobby Doss
So what are one, two, three, Wally Mulhern pet peeves?
00:18:38
Wally Mulhearn
I, I would, I would say you know, we, we joke, I, I'll write this on the board sometimes, A T Q, and A T Q stands for Answer the Question.
00:19:21
Bobby Doss
And you can actually, there, there's a, there's a forward version of that, the ATFQ, I think that stands for Answer the Freakin' Question, right?
00:19:23
Wally Mulhearn
but a lot of times, and, and I've been doing this long enough, I, the, the, the applicant will begin to deflect, and you'll ask them a question, and they may kinda- Turn it in a different direction. And, and I'll let 'em talk and, and after, you know, there's a pause in the conversation, I'll say, "Okay, well, you still haven't answered a question," and I'll repeat the question. and I would say, "Uh, this doesn't really bother me, but I, I will say this to the applicant. Again, just answer the question.
00:19:59
Bobby Doss
I will ask my applicants..." I'll put them in a situation where we have a very aft CG, and I'll say, "Are there any advantages to an aft CG?" And ninety-five percent of 'em will say, "Well, yeah, there are." And then they'll go off and they'll start telling me what the, the advantages are, and, and I'll kind of joke with 'em, I'll say, "Okay, well, what was the question?
00:20:25
Bobby Doss
I remember we, we did a..." a podcast we did, recorded an episode with Pat Brown, another DPE here in Houston, and we were talking about this very subject, and he held up a pen and looked at me and says, "Do you know what this is?" And I said, "It's a pen." And he said, "You didn't answer the question." And I went, "Oh my gosh, I mean, I, I fell into the trap, you know?" So if- If we're asking you a yes or no question, just, just answer it, yes or no.
00:20:43
Bobby Doss
And so, are there any advantages to an APT-CG?
00:20:44
Wally Mulhearn
Yes, there are. Now, I'm gonna follow it up with, "Well, tell me, tell me what they are." So I am, but you know, it's a little bit of gamesmanship. you know, I, I, pet peeves, I, I kinda let the conversation, a-and, you know, every one of my orals, I, I believe is a little bit different.
00:21:01
Wally Mulhearn
And a lot of it will be driven by, if I look at knowledge test results and we've got, you know, a lot of you know, we, maybe- maybe their, their performance chart y-y-uh, it just depends, I, you know, I, I will look at that and I will kinda say, okay, we need to go performance chart heavy on this checkride, or we need to go airspace heavy, FAR heavy and, you know, we'll, we'll, we may dig a little bit deeper into those areas.
00:21:15
Wally Mulhearn
but I, I- You know, I, I, I, I can't say I have too many pet peeves. I, I will say this, number one, is probably being on time. I always used to teach my kids, and, and my, my youngest daughter still teases me about this. You know, if you're on time, if you're early, you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. And if you're late, you're dead. I used to teach the drum line at local, local high school, and that was our philosophy. If you're early, you're on time.
00:22:06
Wally Mulhearn
If you're on time, wait. If you're early, you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. And if you're late, you're dead. So, you know, I'm a big believer in that.
00:22:09
Bobby Doss
So what applicants are terrified to ask, and I, I've heard this a bunch, right?
00:22:21
Wally Mulhearn
And I, I felt it, like I, I, I felt it in my private check right for sure.
00:22:22
Bobby Doss
Is the DPE really trying to make me nervous?
00:22:22
Bobby Doss
Are you trying to make us scared of you?
00:22:33
Wally Mulhearn
No, and, and I can only speak for me and a couple of others that I know fairly well You know, some of the local, local ones, and, and no, we're, we're not. Now and I know you're gonna be nervous. I mean, heck, I, I go in every nine months for a seven eighty seven checkride or, or whatever airplane I happen to be flying at United Airlines, and, yeah, there's, there's a level of anxiety.
00:23:37
Bobby Doss
So am I nervous?
00:23:37
Wally Mulhearn
Yeah, a little bit. but no, no, we're-- I'm, I'm, I'm not trying to make you- Nervous, and some people tell me, "Oh, you're, you're so intimidating." You know, I'm not, I'm not a huge guy. We used to have a, a DPE that, that tragically passed away a couple years ago who was, who was just a large man. I mean, he was probably six four you know, two hundred and eighty pounds, a, a large human being, and his, just his sheer size was intimidating.
00:23:54
Wally Mulhearn
I mean, I was intimidated by him anytime he came- Called me, even, even when I saw his name pop up on my phone, I mean, I felt like I needed to stand up at attention before I answered the phone. so I, I could see that, but I'm not, and I will, you know, after we log into Acura, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna say, "Tell me about yourself." And you know, I just wanna get to know you a little bit.
00:24:22
Wally Mulhearn
And I will almost always end it with, "Tell me something about you that nobody at this flight school knows." And, you know, it may be something like Well, I really like to cook.
00:24:38
Bobby Doss
Alright, then we'll, you know, maybe I'll, I'll say, okay, well, what do you like to cook?
00:24:39
Bobby Doss
Italian or Mexican, you know, or Chinese or, or what, what, what, what's your specialty?
00:24:39
Wally Mulhearn
And we'll, we'll talk about that a little time, a little bit.
00:24:40
Bobby Doss
And, and I, I, I'll joke with the applicant, I'll, 'cause a lot of times they'll look at me like, "What?
00:25:01
Bobby Doss
You, you, what do you mean?" And, and I'll say, "Look, we're about to get in this Piper Warrior, and for two hours, our legs are gonna touch each other.
00:25:01
Bobby Doss
Alright?
00:25:26
Wally Mulhearn
So we oughta at least get to know each other." Amen to that. So, no, I, I, now- Are there times, well, yeah, I, I know I do make people nervous, but I, I, I try not to. That's not my goal. All right, so this is again, the applicant who's, they're afraid to ask these, or terrified, terrified to ask these things.
00:25:57
Bobby Doss
Are you, when you ask me, I'm the applicant, I'm in the room, we're doing the oral, or maybe I'm in the plane, and you say to me, "Are you sure about that?" What does that actually mean?
00:26:09
Bobby Doss
And are you telling me I'm wrong?
00:26:14
Wally Mulhearn
Like Yeah, yeah, I I'm not sure I've ever said that phrase to an applicant who gave me a correct answer. So, I mean, I might as well have a big sign that says, "Wrong." all right.
00:26:39
Bobby Doss
Now, I, I will say, and, and I, I'll, I will tell the applicant in their briefing, the, the, you know, before we start, I'll say, "Look, a lot of my questions are gonna have..." Lots of right answers, okay?
00:26:40
Wally Mulhearn
So, you know, we're going from point A to point B, and we can't make it to point B nonstop, so we need to make a fuel stop. So you picked Jackson, Mississippi.
00:26:40
Bobby Doss
I may say, "Why did you pick Jackson, Mississippi?" And it's not it's not because Jackson is wrong, there's nothing wrong with Jackson.
00:26:51
Wally Mulhearn
You're the pilot, you pick your fuel stop. And, and I just kinda wanna get, hear your, your logic. And you know, it, it may be, well, they've got, they've got inexpensive fuel, they've got a restaurant on the field you know, they have services. my grandmother lives in Jackson, and she makes great chicken and dumplings, and those are all, all great reasons. So I you know, when I- I ask for more in depth you know, clarification on the, the answer.
00:27:28
Wally Mulhearn
I'm not-- I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to understand your mindset.
00:27:33
Bobby Doss
I think every applicant has asked me this question weeks, days, minutes before a check ride, "Am I allowed to look something up during the oral?" I think every applicant would love to ask their DPE and get the heartfelt question of what the right answer is, "Are you gonna let me look something up if I don't know it?" And the answer is absolutely yes.
00:27:39
Wally Mulhearn
the oral is open book.
00:27:58
Bobby Doss
there's- Well, that jumps to my next question, then, how many times can I not know and have to look it up before I'm in trouble?
00:28:20
Wally Mulhearn
Yeah. Well there are certain things that, you know, if I ask you, "Tell me what our horizontal distance from clouds, the limitation in Class D airspace is," if- If you have to look it up you know that, I, that's something you probably oughta know. You probably oughta know that it's five hundred feet. And, no, I threw out a softball, I said that wrong. See if anybody out there catches it. Two thousand feet horizontally I actually do know that.
00:29:53
Wally Mulhearn
but You know, in the real airplane you're-- if you're coming up to a cloud, you're probably not gonna have time to pull up your FAR to figure out how close you can get.
00:30:14
Bobby Doss
Now, how do you measure two thousand feet?
00:30:14
Wally Mulhearn
Well, I, I, I don't know that. but, but yeah, it, it is an open book. and, and I tell my applicants that it is open book. However, if you look everything up, we're gonna be here all day, and we're gonna run out of time, and we're gonna have to discontinue because the sun's about to go down, and I'm not doing a check ride at night. Or we're gonna run way into the next applicant's time slot.
00:31:05
Wally Mulhearn
I, I schedule my check rides four hours apiece, knowing that they may go five, and I think the, the twelve o'clock check ride people always kinda know that we may really be starting at one. but you know, it's not fair for them for if you, if you gotta look everything up and you know it, it causes them to cancel. So, you know, at, at some point I do have a drop dead time of, okay, we need to be in the air by this time.
00:31:25
Wally Mulhearn
So yeah, and I, I don't mind you looking things up, it actually, it shows me if you don't know something but you can find it, sometimes that shows more than just rote memorization of the answer. I like it.
00:32:12
Bobby Doss
So if I mess up one maneuver, am I done?
00:32:12
Wally Mulhearn
yeah, well, it, it depends on how much you mess it up. Now, the ACS says- I lose 101 feet. I lose 101 feet in steep turns. As long as you get back to less than a hundred feet it, it, I forgot how it's worded in the ACS, but the-- if you read the preamble to the ACS, which I would suggest it's kind of dry reading, but it talks about this kind of stuff, and I think it says a momentary exceedance as long as you get back to it, is acceptable.
00:32:19
Wally Mulhearn
So, you know, you're at a hundred feet, you go to a hundred and one, you get back to a hundred feet and get back to, to zero, no, no, that's- And I think CFIs need to hear that because I do hear a lot of hallway chatter like, you know, the tolerances, the tolerances, the, the ACS, the ACS. It's not true.
00:32:33
Wally Mulhearn
The CFI should maybe read the preamble, like, you can break the- The threshold of those numbers, as long as you recognize it and recover it is what I've always believed and, and that's what I read in the messaging. there might be some maneuvers, like the power off one eighty, I believe that's kind of a one and done thing if you read the, if you read that correctly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:36
Wally Mulhearn
So it's not every maneuver, but there are some that are hard nosed or hard fails, and there are some that you can recover during the maneuver or during the execution of the maneuver and probably not fail the Checkride because of it.
00:32:36
Bobby Doss
Now, if I broke tolerances on eighteen out of eighteen tasks and recovered, I bet my DP would feel differently about, "Am I, am I supposed to be a private pilot tomorrow?" Right, right.
00:32:36
Bobby Doss
Should I tell you that I know I messed something up?
00:32:36
Bobby Doss
Yeah, yeah, I, I've had people do that all the time.
00:32:40
Bobby Doss
You know, they'll, they'll answer a question and- we'll, we'll take a break, and I don't know if they phoned a friend or if they looked it up or what, but I'll come back and I'll say, "Hey, no, I or back, back before I said the answer is red, the answer is actually blue," and I'll say, "Oh, okay, alright, good." And you know what?
00:32:52
Bobby Doss
You know what?
00:32:57
Wally Mulhearn
I'll bet that person never forgets ever that the answer is blue. Right. Learning has occurred. Yes. Now, we're not allowed to teach on a check ride, but that doesn't mean you can't learn. The learning can take place, teaching doesn't have to take place. Amen to that.
00:33:17
Bobby Doss
Can I ask for a break, use the restroom, eat something, or just reset for a minute?
00:33:17
Wally Mulhearn
Absolutely. And, and I tell my applicants you know, we if, if I'm at a flight school where they're familiar you know, they obviously know where the restroom is. But if they come to me and it's kind of a, a new environment, I'll point out where the restroom is. And, and I, I tell them, "Look, I understand life goes on." I says, "If any point in time you need to take a break, and we will take a break probably about forty-five to fifty minutes into the- The oral portion.
00:33:40
Wally Mulhearn
but I will tell them if at any point you need to go use the restroom, grab something to eat ju-just tell me. I'll, I'll say, "Look, if you need to answer a phone call, answer a text, I'm okay with that. I understand that. I know, you know, grandma may be in the hospital and, and you know..." Your, your, your pregnant wife may be at home and, and you need to be available. I get that.
00:34:00
Wally Mulhearn
I, I am not offended whatsoever if you know, your, your phone buzzes and you need to say, "Hey, I'm sorry, I, I need to take this." So I, I tell people that.
00:34:31
Bobby Doss
So, now, are all DPS that way?
00:34:37
Wally Mulhearn
I, I don't know, but I am. I, I understand life goes on. I took a break during my vision jet check ride and I- It was a rough week, rough nine days, and I remember I think I'd just done Unusual Attitudes, I didn't feel like I really had control of that airplane, and he said, "That, that part, part, piece was done," and I was like, "I need to take a break," and he paused the sim, and when I came back for my break, we were doing something completely different.
00:34:46
Wally Mulhearn
I also knew we were about 80% through it, and I just needed a break. And super gracious guy, I don't think I would've crashed the plane, of course, but I, I just, I needed a break, and I knew it, I knew I could say I wanna take a break. And he wasn't the guy or girl that might say no, but at the same time, it, it gave me a perfect reset, and I passed that checkride. It was eight o'clock at night.
00:35:08
Wally Mulhearn
He probably wanted to get home too, but he knew the situation and was a gracious human being as well. So Don't be afraid of that for sure, it's my, my advice. Yeah. When, when we get ready to go fly, I, I will usually tell the applicant, usually it, it depends, so sometimes we are up on a time limit, but more times than not, I w- I will tell them, "All right, we're in good shape on time. Take a break, use the restroom, grab something to eat, grab something to, to drink.
00:35:35
Wally Mulhearn
if you need to make a phone call, go ahead and do that. but let's, Not in a hurry, but let's, let's get the preflight done. We don't need to do an hour-long preflight. Let's, let's get it going and keep going. But you know, take care of your, your needs, your personal needs first. We got plenty of time. And I tell you that I am nervous.
00:36:03
Wally Mulhearn
sure, you can tell me, but I, I, I will say, "Well, I, I, I don't know what to do with that." And, and everybody does tell me that they're nervous. So I'm really nervous.
00:36:10
Wally Mulhearn
And typically where I see that is when I will ask them a question that invol-involves calculating something, and the calculation may be 5 plus 2, and they pull out their phone or they pull out a calculator to go 5 plus 2, and, and I will usually make the comment, I'll say, "You, you really need a calculator to add 5 and 2." And, and they say, "Well, I'm you know public math," or, or I, I just wanna make sure I got it right.
00:37:34
Wally Mulhearn
I said, "Well, I, I, I, that's, that's..." I've always been a math guy, and, and I, I, I can't imagine under-- being under the most stress ever in my life, I can't imagine not being able to figure out five plus two. But you know, if, if that's what you gotta do, that's what you gotta do. I do tell the applicants that, you know, real world, you're gonna need to do some math calculations. You know, on the fly, and you're not gonna have the opportunity to do that.
00:38:50
Wally Mulhearn
I mean, we're not talking advanced calculus, we're, we're talking about some very basic addition and subtraction. The big one, I think a lot of people wonder this.
00:39:00
Bobby Doss
Are you hoping I pass?
00:39:00
Wally Mulhearn
A- absolutely. yeah. I mean My life's a lot easier if, if you pass. let's just- I almost think that might be the wrong question, and, and let me challenge you on that. I don't know that you're hoping that I pass. I think you're hoping that I'm prepared. I think you're hoping that I know the information. I think you're hoping that I can do basic math. I think you're hoping that I know avgas weighs about six pounds per gallon.
00:39:35
Wally Mulhearn
I hope you know that I can do some of that in real time. I think you're hoping that it's a great day for me and a great day for you, and the outcome, because of that great day, is going to be that I pass and I become, I, I become that rated pilot Absolutely right.
00:39:35
Wally Mulhearn
I mean, we're, we're, we're not just it's not like, "Boy, I hope this person passes, so let me just go ahead and put satisfactory right now before we even go fly." You, you still gotta, you gotta meet the standards and Yeah, it's, it's, it's less paperwork for me for a pass than it is for an unsatisfactory, and, you know I hate to kinda go here, but I will go here. I mean, just the economics.
00:39:35
Wally Mulhearn
you know, I typically charge half price for a recheck, but it really, it- At the end of the day, it still takes half a day usually, so I don't like doing two full check rides and a, a recheck in a day. I mean, that's a long day, it's a really long day. so in general, I don't do that. So if, if I have a recheck and a full check ride it's economically, it's less advan- less advantageous for me. I'll just leave it right there.
00:39:39
Wally Mulhearn
So no, we, we don't, you know, we would prefer not to do rechecks. So, yeah, I w- I do, I want everybody to pass. It's a lot more fun to say, "Congratulations." I mean, it's always awkward, you know, when, when the, the point time comes when you have to say, "Okay, that, that didn't meet the standard.
00:39:51
Bobby Doss
the check ride is gonna be If we're in the air, you know, we usually will say, "Do you want to continue the other maneuvers to try to get them knocked out, or do you just want to go back?" And most of the time, the applicant will say, "Let's, let's just go try." And sometimes, sometimes the, the pressure is off and they do a really good job, but sometimes not so much.
00:39:52
Bobby Doss
So Well, you know what?
00:39:53
Bobby Doss
I knew this was gonna be a lot of conversation and meat. I think we should wrap up here. We got a couple more questions in this section, and one that you're not gonna wanna miss. And then part three is gonna be all about getting inside Wally's head. Wow, that's gonna be a deep, deep, deep subject. And we're also gonna have a lightning round. We're gonna make this part two of Ask the DPE. Tune in in two weeks to get the second part of this podcast.
00:39:53
Bobby Doss
As always, fly safely and stay behind the prop. Perfect.
00:39:54
Behind the Prop Outro
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