Our three part "mock instrument checkride" series continues this week, with part two. If you've got an instrument 'ride coming up, listen up as a flight school owner and DPE give you some excellent tips!
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00:01
Behind the Prop Intro
Clear prop S73 Cherokee number two following twin traffic three mile final one trolley bravo makesford in Runway two five going four mile.
00:10
Nick Alan
This is behind the prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot Bobby Doss and his co host, major airline captain and designated pilot examiner Wally Mulhern. Now let's go behind the prop.
00:25
Bobby Doss
What's up Wally?
00:26
Wally Mulhern
Hey Bobby, how are you?
00:28
Bobby Doss
I am fantastic as always. So we've dreaded it for years, all four plus of our time together that we would screw up a recording. And we've done pretty dang good for the first 150 plus. But last week we had our first unrecoverable glitch where you stopped recording at the 28 minute mark. And we talked for another 20 minutes. So sorry to those out there that were on pins and needles to hear the rest of part one of the instrument mock checkride. But we are ready to go. We're gonna finish up all of part one today.
01:08
Bobby Doss
We thought we would make a big long two part series but I think now we're gonna make it a three part series just like we did the private and cover all the aspects of the ACS for the instrument checkride with a flight school owner and a DPE who's going to give you all the secrets. But those secrets are already published, Wally. Are they not in the acs?
01:29
Wally Mulhern
They are published. Every one of them is published. It's right in front of your fingertips if you choose to download the document or buy the document.
01:39
Bobby Doss
And it's really funny because we've talked about this forever. I heard instructors recently trying to give their play by play of a checkride. And they, you know, they, all they really can do is repeat how their checkride went. They've not done a thousand checkrides like you have done. And assuming your weightings about what the training world weighting is, you I assume most are private and then a good meaty chunk. 20 to 30% of those are instrument checkrides. And so you've probably done 3, 400 instrument checkrides. There's not a single individual that's going to be the applicant on three or four hundred instrument checkrides. So if you tuned into this show, you have the horse's mouth right here telling us what we need to be prepared for a checkride. And there are no gimmicks.
02:36
Bobby Doss
This is an open book test and we got through really areas of Operation 1, A, B and A little bit of C. But we're going to jump in at areas of operation pre flight planning, which is number one. And we're going to jump into cross country flight planning after we finished up last week talking a little bit about onboard weather and the things that were going to be asked of you by a designated pilot examiner as it relates to onboard weather in your iPad, it's delayed. Know that stuff. Be prepared to be able to speak to it if you're using the electronic flight bag. But here I've presented. You've asked me to prepare a flight plan to Tulsa.
03:18
Bobby Doss
I have included a fuel stop and we're going over my cross country flight plan and I gotta assume you're gonna ask me to share it with you and my thoughts around it, but walk me through. We're in that room. What's it like? What am I, what's my next step is this oral portion of the checkride continues.
03:37
Wally Mulhern
Well, I'm going to ask you where we're going. You know, again, if you plan to go non stop and it works, that's fine. If you plan a fuel stop, I'll ask you where we're going to and I will then ask you what your filed routing is and what your altitude is. And we'll start that as a, a starting point. You may file it. I don't know what a lot of people will do is they'll say, well I've, I filed all Victor Airways and vors and usually I say why? And they, you know, a lot of people say well I, I thought you'd want to see that. And well, I don't, I just want you to file, I want you to file it.
04:25
Wally Mulhern
You know I've said this hundreds of times, but I want you to file it like you would file it if you were taking your family to Tulsa tomorrow. If you wouldn't do VOR's and Victor Airways, that's fine. Just whatever works for you because I guarantee when I give you a clearance, it's not going to be what you filed. So you know, we're going to talk about the differences. You know, we're going to talk a lot about the mechanics of just filing a flight plan. You know, the problem that we get to, with instrument flight is when you're working toward your instrument, we want to be technical. You cannot be pilot in command on an IFR flight plan because you don't have an instrument rating at this point. So you know, a lot of people will, their instructors will file the Flight plan.
05:29
Wally Mulhern
And you know, I'm not sure what good that does, but I mean, you know, if I'm going to work with someone and talk to them or teach them how to file a flight plan, I'm going to have them actually hitting the keys and entering the information in whatever format they use to file the flight plan. Now when it gets down the pic name of course we're going to put my name in there because I have to be the pilot in command. But you know, it's filing a flight plan on foreflight or again, whatever EFB you happen to use is a really simple process, you know.
06:08
Wally Mulhern
So a funny story, a good friend of mine, another fellow airline pilot friend of mine about, oh, I don't know, about a year ago I, I, I, I took him for a ride in one my air when I had my 172 and he got infected by the general aviation bug. He went out and he ended up buying an airplane and he's very much into it. But about a year ago he just got his airplane out of the shop, did a major avionics upgrade. And he calls me up one day, says hey, I got a, he says, you're going to have to teach me how to do something. I go what's that? And he goes, you're gonna have to teach me how to file a flight plan, an IFR flight plan, using foreflight.
06:53
Wally Mulhern
And I had to kind of snicker because here's a major airline pilot asking me that. And I said, well I said, you go in, you enter the information and you hit enter. And he was kind of flabbergasted because back in the day, back when we came up 40 years ago, you had to call a guy up on a telephone or you had to go into a flight service station and hand him a piece of paper. It was, it was a little bit more involved than just hitting enter the way it is now.
07:29
Bobby Doss
And I give a ton of credit to my instructors that I had. Justin Meeks, if you're out there listening, you did me. Well I can remember calling many times on the phone with him and we just used his name when they asked me, I'm making the phone call and we're talking through the components of a flight plan as I answered their questions. When they got to who is the pilot, I just used his name and phone number and I always kind of felt like I was fraudulent doing that. But as you said, he was the pilot in command. But I got to do the steps on the phone call. Calling a weather Briefer filing the flight plan. And this was at the precipice of foreflight.
08:14
Bobby Doss
And I don't even know if you could have filed it in foreflight when I first got my instrument rating, but we would have never done that because those fundamental steps of walking through the flight plan checklist, where's your, where are you starting? Where are you going? What equipment do you have on board? What's your alternate? All those steps are really what's in foreflight. And I think if we shortcut that, we give up too much as a pilot and not knowing how to do it the right way.
08:41
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
08:41
Bobby Doss
Now, Yeah, I file a flight plan in foreflight and hit enter and get my weather briefing there. But I would still say 8 out of 10 flights, I'm calling the weather briefer still. I want that person to be talking to me. I want to them to be giving me, you know, don't go east there. You know, think there's a big storm. All that information is better than just looking at green and red and pink dots in foreflight. So those fundamentals are key, for sure. And if you're not doing it with your students, you're doing a disservice to those students. But let them be able to do it so they can talk to Wally about the steps to do it. For sure.
09:22
Wally Mulhern
Yeah. And, and I think it's a generational thing a little bit. You know, I, I just, not too long ago, I mean, within the, this year, I finally for the first time made a cash deposit at an atm. And it was like, wow, that was really, really cool. It works, it works just great. I would always wait for the bank to open and go through the drive through and, and hand it to, or, you know, put it in a little tube and send it in. And, you know, I don't know.
10:00
Wally Mulhern
I think the younger generation today is perfectly fine with making a cash deposit using an atm, but there is something to be said to talking to somebody because you might miss that notam that the glide slope on the ILS in your destination is out of service, and maybe the only approach is to a Runway that is not favoring the wind. So, you know, especially in a situation where you're going from one airport to another and you're making a fuel stop, you know, you don't really care where the fuel stop is. You're just kind of picking sort of a convenient halfway spot. But, you know, if there's something in the notam that you missed. Maybe another airport might make more sense. And that's where the human touch is pretty good.
10:54
Bobby Doss
Well, like we said, too, I'm not going to do 400 instrument checkrides. I'm not the weather briefer who talks all day on the phone about weather and has seen every possible scenario ever, probably in the last five years as they've given weather briefings. So that little bit of extra skill is always going to be helpful for sure. And while I hate to say, but you showed your age, and unfortunately my age, you know, kids don't use cash at all anymore. My kids don't know what cash is. They know what Venmo is, but they do not know what cash is. Every time I've taken my daughter to the airport and drop her off for a business trip, I give her 40 bucks just to make sure she has some cash.
11:38
Bobby Doss
Because you might have to tip someone and they might not have a QR code to tip them. Right?
11:42
Wally Mulhern
So, yeah, it's crazy. You know, it's funny. I had a young man for a check ride today, he was probably 20, and I, I don't know how it came up, but. Oh, I know we're talking about signing the pages of a logbook and I use the analogy of if I bought a car from you and gave you a check that was unsigned, would you be happy with that? And he said, oh, no, I wouldn't. I said, well, yeah, it's kind of the same concept. And I looked over at him and I said, have you ever written a check? And he thought for a while and he said, no, I haven't. Never written a check. Wow.
12:25
Bobby Doss
So we're looking through my cross country plan. You've asked me some questions. I don't know the route between here and Tolson, if there is special use airspace. But I assume that's where we're gonna probably have some conversations about military areas, restricted areas, special use airspace. How do you incorporate that into your conversation?
12:47
Wally Mulhern
Well, you know, I talk to people and I say, you know, we end up talking about filing. IFR makes things so much easier because ATC will protect you from all those special use airspaces. You know, I, when I file ifr, typically I file direct. I just put, I'm going from my home airport to the new airport that I'm going to. And I just say direct. And, you know, couple hours before the flight, you'll get an email with an expected routing. Now that expected routing is very seldom direct, but now I know what ATC wants me to do so or I know what I'm expecting. And again, my home airport is not, is an uncontrolled airport. So I have to call on the phone to clearance delivery and get my clearance.
13:46
Wally Mulhern
But you know, MOAs, they're going to keep you clear of MOAs restricted areas or any kind of special use airspace. TFRs, they're going to keep you clear of that. Now does that mean that you should just not pay attention to it? No, no. I mean, I think you should still pay attention to it. But one of the many beauties of filing IFR is they take care of that. You know, the other thing, the IFR flight plan, they're gonna, you're gonna get reminded to close it. And if you go in, if you land at a controlled airport, when you land, your flight plan automatically gets closed. You don't have to remember, oh my gosh, I'm driving home, I gotta call call and cancel my VFR flight plan. So a lot of the burden, I mean it's just easier. It is just so much easier.
14:43
Bobby Doss
So all that stuff's knowledge that you could ask an applicant about and then we get to the skills section and you need to see us exhibit some things. So that's all that we've already talked about with the flight plan. Prepare, present and explain all the cross country stuff. I might get a problem that I have to recalculate fuel based on the evaluator scenario. Is there a common scenario that you like to give or you think DPEs give to their students, applicants. Sorry that they would have to figure out that fuel.
15:16
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, well, I'm going to give them a less direct routing than what they filed for and you know, that's where we talk about, you know, especially if, you know, go from Houston to Tulsa. I, I, I don't know the exact distance, but you know, it's kind of the, on the edge of the range of maybe a, a Cherokee or 172. So you know, I might give him something that is 80 miles longer or a different altitude or something to where they're going to have to think about the fuel element of that. Okay, well, maybe I can't go non stop or you know, maybe I need to go to a, make a different fuel stop. But we're, you know, we're just going to talk about that kind of stuff and figure out what works today.
16:09
Wally Mulhern
And, and I do like to use it on current, you know, real time Weather.
16:18
Bobby Doss
Perfect. So a few other skill items in that section, we're going to probably cover all of those items. Now we're going to move to area of. Area of operation, part two, the pre flight procedures. You're going to just ask me about the systems. I'm assuming at this point there's got to be some knowledge that I need to understand. I can remember being a young to aviation pilot thinking about all the failures of a Pedot static system. We've done many shows on this stuff. But as a pro like you are, you're wanting the pilot to be knowledgeable. What's going to break and how, what are the common errors? Right. You're not seeking out to trick them and catch them. You just want to make sure they know what's going to happen.
17:06
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and it's going to be dependent on what equipment is installed in the airplane that we're using. I mean if we are flying in a airplane, it has a vacuum system. You know, we're going to talk about vacuum pump failures and what, how it would affect us, what instruments it would affect. But more so we're going to talk about recognition and how you would recognize a vacuum pump failure. And I've said it many times on this show, that's, that could be tricky. It could be tricky recognizing a vacuum pump failure because it. You don't get a big red light flash. Well, you might depending on the airplane, but most airplanes are not. And you know, most airplanes, the suction gauge or the vacuum gauge is well out of your field of view.
17:59
Wally Mulhern
I mean it ought to be like right in front of you. But for whatever reason they're usually not.
18:07
Bobby Doss
And they're always small. Right. Like you would think that should be like one of the big dials. That should be the size of the airspeed indicator. But it's normally a dime tucked in a corner with only one little square of green. That makes you feel comfortable.
18:23
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
18:24
Bobby Doss
So we talk about the systems. We talk again more about ice. I'm assuming pitot heat. If that fails and the ran, the pito's static system gets clogged in either side. We're gonna talk through that stuff. So we need to be familiar with those failures and what would happen and how we would recognize it. The di. The, the de icinger, what's in it? What's in a 172. That helps me de ice the aircraft. Do students struggle with that? I know there's not just one and many people think there's just One. But do you talk about that?
19:01
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I do. I'll say, well, tell me what kind of anti icing or deicing equipment we have on in this airplane. And usually it's, you know, we got pitot heat and we usually have a defroster. And you know, we might have, if it's a carbureted airplane, we're gonna have some carburetor heat. But that's usually about it.
19:25
Bobby Doss
And I think of the defrosting being the one that probably most people forget about. Right. If we get ice on the windshield, that's gonna, that could be a real big problem. But we have something that can help us there. And then carpet. We think of it normally during landing purposes, but it is something that could help us en route as well if were having a problem.
19:46
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
19:47
Bobby Doss
So we've done all that. We've talked now, we've talked about the flight instruments, we've talked about vacuums, we've talked about the RAM air, we've talked about the pitot system. Now we move into the next piece of the acs, which is the instrument flight deck check.
20:08
Wally Mulhern
All right, let's go back to systems just a little bit. One, sure. One, one thing that I am going to talk about is just tagging onto that vacuum pump failure. If were to lose our dg, our directional gyro, how are we going to know where we're going? Of course, and the answer is the compass, if we have one. Well, we have some airplanes that don't have one, but you know, we'll talk a little bit about compass errors. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna get, yeah, you know, we're not going to get way down in the, the, you know, weeds about that. But what I, A lot of people struggle with this. You know, I will ask them, I'll say, when is the compass 100% accurate? And most people will say straight level flight. And that's not the whole answer.
21:05
Wally Mulhern
And it's the whole answer is straight and level unaccelerated flight. Other than that, the compass is, is kind of a guide. It catch you in the ballpark. But you know, and then we may talk about time turns and why is that turn coordinator. Why is it called a two minute time coordinator? And I, I literally remember my father talking to me about this one time. He said, why is it called a two minute time coordinator? And I guess, and I guess correctly, I go, oh, takes two minutes to go all the way around. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then I did 360 divided by 120 and I said that's 3 degrees per second. And that was very much a light bulb moment in my life.
21:57
Wally Mulhern
I mean I can remember many times working probably more so on my instructor, my instrument instructor rating than my instrument rating. But you know, we're on a heading of 060 and the instructor says okay, turn left heading three six zero. And you know, I was able to say okay, that's 60 degrees. 60 divided by 3 is 20. It's a 20 second turn. Of course we're partial panel, we got everything covered up. So you know, I put the thing on the mark and fly a standard rate turn for 20 seconds and level the wings and then kind of take a look up at the compass and make adjustments accordingly. But you know, I had a very, was very successful making turns like that with just using time turns. But you got to be able to do mental math.
22:48
Wally Mulhern
So sometimes that's a bit of a challenge.
22:51
Bobby Doss
It's probably been a couple years, but there's a show on that somewhere on our podcast as well.
22:56
Wally Mulhern
Right? Yeah.
22:58
Bobby Doss
So we get to the airplane and let's just assume there's a DME in the airplane. We also have a Garmin 430 that's was enabled and the DME is marked inoperative. Are you going to ask any questions about that?
23:15
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I mean, and I will. We probably would have covered that before we even made it out there because one thing I always ask is, does everything in the airplane work? And you know, by and large people will say yes, but sometimes we get out there and it's not so. Yes.
23:39
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I own a flight school, remember there's a lot of broken stuff from time to time and it's. Again, normally it's not required equipment, but there is a process, there is an advisory circular on how to manage that and how to deal with that stuff. And yeah, I think we're all probably a little weak in that because we don't do it every day, we don't manage it every day. We're probably better at it right around checkrides. But it's a big part of.
24:04
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I think what maybe where there's a little bit of a deficiency if you will. You know, and I, when we talk about inoperative equipment and this goes back to the private pilot level as well, I mean we'll talk about something on the airplane not working and I'll say, okay, so we determined that this nav light is not working. We're going during the day, it's not required equipment. What do we do? Just get in the airplane and go. And most people will say, oh no, it needs to be written up, it needs to be documented. And the thing that most people get, but I sometimes have to dig a little bit for it is that component has to be disabled. Okay.
24:56
Wally Mulhern
And that might mean pulling, not just pulling a circuit breaker, but putting a collar on the circuit breaker so it can't inadvertently be reset. And that, you know, that's reason. If we got a nav light that doesn't work, we don't know why it doesn't work. We can make the assumption that there is just a burned out bulb, but there could also be a short in that wire and you know, we don't want to have that thing turned to the on position. If we got a short out there.
25:25
Bobby Doss
Yeah, that would be very bad. So we're in area of Operation 3 now. Air traffic controller clearances and procedures. I'm assuming we've walked through our flight plan with you. We've talked through the oral. Assuming we're still not the plane yet, but you're gonna talk about some stuff. You're gonna have to see me demonstrate, I guess at the airplane that I can copy the clearance and that I can repeat that clearance back. This mostly probably radios, but that's part a task A is the radio conversation. Anything that applicants need to be worried about, Wally, or what are you gonna do as it relates to this? Are you just observing and making sure they know how to talk?
26:11
Wally Mulhern
No. And I'll do the clearance in the briefing room. I'll say, okay, let's do a little role playing. You are you and I'm atc, so go ahead and call me for the clearance to wherever and so they'll play the game. Hooks ground Skyhawk 1, 2, 3, Alpha Bravo. Like to pick up our IFR clearance to wherever and I'll give it to him. Okay, you're cleared to the so and so airport via the stick gate Departure Dolly transition climb and maintain 2000. Expect 8010 minutes after departure. And I'll give him a clearance and then what?
26:55
Wally Mulhern
You know, we have to be very careful that, you know, I'll tell them, look, if we get out there in the real world, we're really in the airplane and you know, my clearance to you in the briefing room was turn right heading 270 and we get out there and ATC gives us Runway heading you know, obviously, we got to adhere to atc, So a lot of times, what I will say in the briefing room, I will say fly heading assigned by tower, and that kind of. It doesn't implant any expectation bias or anything like that.
27:32
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I can. I can see an applicant being nervous about that sort of stuff. Being. Being, hey, they told me this. You told me that you're the man in charge. What do I do here? That could trip things up for sure.
27:43
Wally Mulhern
Right?
27:45
Bobby Doss
Okay. I think it's. I think there's tools built before it. I think there's cheat sheets. I think that's on every IFR knee board in the world. And this is holding procedures, entries, all that stuff. I have to assume you're gonna make them hold at some point. Are you making them talk through it in the oral component, or are we gonna wait and just exhibit those skills in the airplane?
28:13
Wally Mulhern
I typically wait till we're in the airplane, but, yeah, we're gonna hold. We're definitely gonna hold. And it might be an unpublished hold it, you know, and this is. This is where I make. Mix things up. We make hold as published after a missed approach.
28:33
Bobby Doss
Wait a second. While I read your gouge and your gouge said you do the same hold all the time. You can't mix it up, can you?
28:40
Wally Mulhern
Well, yeah, it's. It's adds a little, you know, keeps me awake.
28:48
Bobby Doss
So, yeah, I, I. You don't remember because you did thousands of them, but mine was 10 miles west of Dayzeta, so 10 miles DME west of Dayzetta. Everything else was standard, and, man, I had never done that. So I was scared to death on flying and figuring out how to make that hold on the fly. I was so prepared to do the published hold at Navasota. We went east. It was a very interesting for a guy like me, little flight time. Right. It was very interesting to have all these things thrown at me and applicants. You just got to be ready, you know, you got to be able to hold anywhere, anytime, based on directions from atc. And I think, although it was a good day, it was a crazy day for mentally, but it made me a better pilot.
29:40
Bobby Doss
I realized that I had to be ready. And when I fly with my family in imc, I feel ready. Right. I'm not too concerned that I can't do something that they asked me to do. But, yeah, it was a great day.
29:55
Wally Mulhern
Yeah. Well, you know, holding is. Is something that. That I think everybody gets a little anxiety over, because if you're holding, it's. It's Usually not good. You know, something's going on. There's a reason that you're holding. Maybe it's might be saturation from atc. You know, they can't let you in the airspace. It might be weather. I mean, that's when we think about mostly. But there could be a whole string of reasons to hold. Maybe the airport, you know, now that, you know, if there's VIP movement going on, you know, before an election or something, and they're running a little bit late. You know, you may not be able to get into your destination, or you may not be able to just get into the airspace. Could be a disabled airplane on a Runway. So there's lots of reasons to hold.
30:55
Wally Mulhern
But I will say this. You know, when we do the hold, we have recommended holding entry procedures for the hold, and the ACS states that the applicant must use the recommended entry procedure, whether it be parallel, teardrop, or direct. So, you know, if you go and you really kind of mess it up, but you finally find your way into the hold, that doesn't meet the standard.
31:32
Bobby Doss
Yeah, man, I struggled with that, too. And I think it's one of those things that you study and you learn, but you need to know those things. And I think you gave some practical stuff when we were on pause last time around. But it's the easiest way to get there, is what you said. If you remember were talking about how to get into the hold. It's almost always the easiest thing to do, meaning the least amount of turning. And if you can just think about that, it's just the least amount of turning.
32:03
Wally Mulhern
Absolutely. I mean, it's like driving to the, to. To Taco Bell. I mean, if you're going to get your car and drive to Taco Bell, you're probably going to go the easiest way to get there. You're not going to drive through the neighborhood and make 45 turns and hit, you know, 18 stop signs. You're going to get on the, you know, the least amount of turns. So when you hit the holding fix, just look at it and say, okay, there's. There are three ways I can get into this hole. I can go direct. So if I went direct, what would I have to do? I would have to do this and this. Okay. If I did a teardrop, I would have to do this. I did parallel. Gee, I wouldn't even have to turn. Okay, well, you got your answer. It's a parallel entry.
32:49
Bobby Doss
Now you've done again. Hundreds of instrument check rides. And as a fly school owner, I get to participate in a lot of debriefs. And I've seen the good and I have seen the bad. But you use an electronic flight bag. You have a track log. What, as we wrap up this part two or one and a half of part one. What. What's the craziest looking track log you've ever seen on a holding. A holding pattern that was part of a checkride?
33:23
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I've seen lots of circles. Lots of circles. But, you know, probably the craziest I've seen is someone trying to intercept a Victor airway. And literally it looks like s turns going across the Victor airway. And, and I'm just sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, what is going on here? And usually the next time when the applicant comes back to me in a week or so, they've got to figure it out.
33:55
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I think we all make over adjustments as private pilots when we're trying to land. And I think as new instrument students, we all over correct. And chase that needle. We, we keep turning until it gets to a center and then we realize, well, shucks, we're a half a mile on the other side of the line now, and it's swung the other way. So.
34:16
Wally Mulhern
Right.
34:16
Bobby Doss
Something we all do. If you're out there listening and you're working on your instrument, you will learn how to control that airplane better. And that's the process of learning. And if you see a big S turn that gets straighter over time, that tells you that learning has occurred. So we are at the point. We're about halfway through the acs. We're gonna talk next time about areas of operation. Four flight by reference of instruments. I think this is the meat. This is the flying portion. I think I see it way too often, Wally, that people spend so much time on the flying that they forget the book work. And I would think a student. Me too. As an applicant.
35:00
Bobby Doss
I thought shooting that ils and holding glide slope and tracking it all the way down to the Runway lights where I saw the Runway environment and I memorized that stuff. I thought that was the most important thing. But at the end of the day, flying instrument, really, in imc, that's not what we're worried about. That last portion, that one approach, that one precision approach is not the be all end all. Would you agree?
35:26
Wally Mulhern
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's so many, you know, so many things in between that we usually skip over or just, you know, I do spend a lot of time talking about, well, not a lot, but I do talk about non radar environments, how to make position reports and that sort of thing. And that is, I would say in general that's probably a weak link in the whole, the ground portion. And you know, some people may say, well, yeah, I've never had to make a non radar position report. Well, if you start flying internationally, you will. And you know it there's a, there's a format for it and it's pretty important to get it right.
36:25
Bobby Doss
Yeah, we're going to learn a lot next time on the next episode about the instrument checkride and about how to prepare for that instrument checkride and when you meet that DP at the airplane and go fly, there's a lot to it. As always, thanks for listening to the show and stay behind the prop.
36:43
Nick Alan
Thanks for checking out the behind the Prop podcast. Be sure to click subscribe and check us out online@bravetheprop.com behind the Prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co host is Wally Mulhern. The show is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember, fly safe.