We talk with Jay Robinson, United Flight Systems Vice President. Jay is an accomplished pilot who has flown to the Bahamas many times. He shares all the tips and tricks you'll need to know if you ever want to attempt this amazing trip on your own! Flying to the Bahamas Checklist: https://f81c9a18-fce5-450a-b117-092328deac25.usrfiles.com/ugd/f81c9a_9a3a684d58a44ff3adac844b3bc0e589.pdf
Please subscribe to our podcast, and share this week's episode! It really helps grow the show.
Also be sure to follow us on social media:
Facebook - Behind the Prop - Home | Facebook
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/behindtheprop/
and of course check us out any time at BehindTheProp.com!
00:01
Behind the Prop Intro
Clear prop S73 Cherokee number two following twin traffic three mile final one trolley bravo makesford in Runway two five going four mile.
00:10
Nick Alan
This is behind the prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot Bobby Doss and his co host, major airline captain and designated pilot examiner Wally Mulhern. Now let's go behind the prop.
00:24
Bobby Doss
What's up, Wally?
00:25
Wally Mulhern
Hey, Bobby, how are you?
00:26
Bobby Doss
I am fantastic as always. This week we have a guest, but it's not just a guest. It's also a show about one of my big bucket list items in general aviation and that is flying to the Bahamas. We have our vice president and friend of mine, Jay Robinson joining us today. Thanks for joining, Jay.
00:44
Jay Robinson
Yeah, absolutely. Bobby, Wally, glad to be here. How are y' all doing?
00:48
Bobby Doss
We're doing great. So I told this story a number of times and I think I've shared it on the show a couple times. I took a Discovery flight some years ago and I and then the next day my wife and I were traveling to Puerto Rico and in the airport, probably getting a pack of gum or Tic Tacs or something. I'm in the little shop and there was a magazine that said fly your plane to the Bahamas. And ever since then I've kept that up, that magazine because one day I'm going to do it myself. And maybe I get to learn a lot today about how to do it. But flying to the Bahamas just seems like one of those things that would be amazing to do.
01:22
Bobby Doss
Go island hopping and do it at your own pace and maybe camp out or sleep on the beach, I don't know. But Jay's got some real history doing this and he's going to talk us through all the fun, good, bad, ugly things that might happen and make sure you're well prepared to go to the Bahamas if you want to fly GA to the Bahamas. So when was the last time you went, Jay?
01:43
Jay Robinson
So the last trip we did was actually this last May and that was, I want to say, trip number six total that I've done to the Bahamas over the years.
01:52
Bobby Doss
Fantastic. So give us a little bit of details. I mean, what was the first time? Like? Obviously you probably learned a lot, kind of walk us through, not at a detailed level here, just a high level. Your first trip, how you figured it out and then really start guiding us on ways we might do it if we want to go do it.
02:11
Jay Robinson
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, the first key is just understanding that this really and truly is something that any GA pilot could do as long as you're willing to put in a very little bit of research, get a few pieces of paperwork done, and just be diligent about what you're doing. The first time I ever went was actually the year after I graduated from college. Me and one of my good friends were, you know, looking at things to do.
02:34
Jay Robinson
We kind of have a history of traveling together and you know, after a few of the other things we've done, it's something that we had both always wanted to venture into doing some international flying and had read a very similar article to the one that you mentioned about that you can fly your own airplane to the Bahamas and got a wild hair that's what we wanted to do. So it really started with just that being an idea, you know, lots of Google searching, lots of resource finding and trying to get as good of an understanding as we could about what's involved in the process. And we'll spend a lot of time today talking about a lot of that.
03:09
Jay Robinson
But ultimately it boils down to what do you have to have as a pilot, what does your airplane have to have, and then what are the processes to depart the United States, arrive in the Bahamas, fly around while you're there, depart the Bahamas and then arrive back in the United States. So that first trip went really well. Like many people, I am not based in Florida and was not at the time, so that was going to be a long airplane ride out there. So we decided that the most economical thing we can do, and still this continues to be the most economical thing for most people, is if you don't have your own airplane instead of renting an airplane locally and flying it all the way to Florida.
03:48
Jay Robinson
There's plenty of rental agencies in South Florida that specialize in aircraft rentals to go to the Bahamas. So we found one in the Palm beach area, got in touch with them, they were able to help us with a lot of the processes, provide us with some resources, provide us with some information. So we flew out there a couple days early, you know, did a basic aircraft checkout that's pretty standard for what you would do to rent at any new place. And then we actually did a Bahamas specific checkout, flew from Palm beach into Bimini, which is the closest island in the chain, you know, cleared customs, did all of our paperwork, turned right back around and did all of our paperwork to come home, flew the airplane home and landed back in Palm Beach.
04:34
Jay Robinson
And then they set us loose and said, keep the shiny side up and have a good time. So again, that's a little bit of an oversimplification but if you can do a little bit of googling, do a little bit of paperwork, any qualified pilot can make this kind of trip happen.
04:49
Bobby Doss
And so, I mean, there's a bunch of islands there. I'm assuming there's a ton of airports. You haven't been to the same place every time. I assume what's, I guess I envision seven different islands and seven different days kind of a trip. Well, you know, that's what I think.
05:05
Jay Robinson
I will say the first trip was very much kind of a whirlwind of, you know, we were still both pretty young pilots in the grand scheme of things and really excited about, you know, how many different airports can we hit while we're there and see as many different things as we could. So we really did kind of make a big loop around the chain of islands over about, I want to say it was four or five days that were out there on that first trip. And there are, there's tons and tons of different islands all the way from the large, heavily populated centers such as Nassau and Freeport down to some very remote places, especially down in the Exumas and some of the scrub keys that are. You might be the only person there if you land your airplane there.
05:47
Jay Robinson
So, yeah, lots of different places to go, certainly, and lots of different things to see depending on what you want your experience to be like, very interesting.
05:55
Bobby Doss
And I'm assuming terminal procedures and publications, all that stuff's very similar as what. We'Re used to here. Find out if they sell AV gas, all that stuff's readily available probably in foreflight as well.
06:08
Speaker 4
So with the advent of foreflight and continuing informational downloads into it's gotten a lot than it used to be. To say that it's the same is definitely not true. I would say there's a lot more hunting and digging and local knowledge type information that you'll have to find out about certain airports. You know, to say that an airport has fuel doesn't necessarily mean that they have fuel seven days a week and that you can get it anytime you want. You know, we're very used to that credit card self serve being ubiquitous at almost every airport. And that is certainly not the case out there really outside the United States in general. But that's very true of the Bahamas. There are lots of airports that are on the maps with no indication that they're closed and have been closed for a very long time.
06:58
Jay Robinson
You know, whereas the FAA is pretty diligent about updating airport information, the Bahamas equivalent I will say is certainly not as diligent. And so the FAA charts really only get updated if the Bahamian government reaches out and wants to update them. So there are lots of things that anyone who flies there regularly just knows. Oh yeah, that airport's been closed for seven years now, but it's still on the chart and the information doesn't say anything about it being closed. So really doing some calls. The Bahamas and Caribbean Pilots Guide is a really good resource. That's a book that's available in both physical and PDF form and if you buy it you can get access to all the updates that they put into it. But really good resource that will be linked below somewhere.
07:44
Jay Robinson
But yeah, getting that local knowledge is definitely something that is going to be a learning curve for people who are used to that all being at their fingertips through foreflight.
07:51
Bobby Doss
Perfect. So we've done some recent shows on pre flight actions and I guess we can just go there. Kind of qualifying the pilot in the aircraft for such a trip is probably not the same as just going and flying around the pattern at Hooks Airport.
08:09
Jay Robinson
Absolutely. So we'll kind of start with pilot qualifications. Most of this is not rocket science, although there have been some updates in the last couple years. So obviously you do have to hold a current and valid pilot certificate. It must explicitly say English proficient on it. I think it's been a long time since I've seen anyone's US License that didn't already say that, but they make it clear that's a requirement. The Bahamas, not right away, but relatively soon after sport pilot became a thing, did start accepting the sport pilot certificate. So if you are flying under that qualification, you are all set. Additionally, you have to have a valid and current medical certificate for the type of operation that you're conducting. And the Bahamas specifically does allow Basic Med.
08:56
Jay Robinson
Not really something we're covering in this show, but as of the last time I looked into it, Mexico nor Canada have picked up Basic Med yet. So Bahamas, you're good, but just don't assume that's the case everywhere. We'll talk about a few things that are different that you wouldn't normally have to have. So I think all of us at some time in our training probably learned that arrow acronym for documents and things like that. And there was always those radio license things that our instructors always just hand waved and said, well you only need that if you're going to fly internationally. We'll talk a little bit more about the process of getting it later. But as a pilot you have to have what's called a restricted radio telephone operator's permit. You get it from the fcc, it never expires.
09:43
Jay Robinson
They give you a nice little fancy certificate and then they give you a wallet sized one that you can keep with you. I don't think I've ever actually had anyone ask to see it, but I do have it and I keep it in my wallet just so we're legal things that are going to be important for you. This is more of an aircraft thing, but I always kind of start with this if you are operating an aircraft that is not yours. So if you're not the registered owner of the aircraft, you need to carry a letter of authorization with you. Where this typically catches people out, most people would think about it if they're truly flying an airplane that's not theirs. But where this will catch people is if they have their airplane registered to an llc.
10:26
Jay Robinson
You know, you just need basically something, some kind of a letter that you have drafted that says you're a manager of the llc, owner of the assets, all that stuff and that you have permission to have the aircraft. And then last but not least for any international travel, of course, you need to have an unexpired passport. The Bahamas is looking for six months of validity on that passport to let you in. I've heard mixed things about how much they really care about that. But the letter of the law is that you need to have a six months left on your passport expiration. Your passengers just again make sure that they also have an unexpired passport with six months on it.
11:02
Jay Robinson
And another note, for a lot of people who are traveling as families, if both mom and dad aren't going, if you have any minors that are not with both parents, you do technically need a letter of approval from the parent that's not present to leave the country with any minor. So just something to know. So really not a huge amount of different pilot qualifications. It's really just getting that radio license, which we'll talk more about later.
11:27
Bobby Doss
Very cool. So I mean, if my wife's not going with me, I just write a letter and say I'm Tammy and I let, let the child go. It's that simple.
11:39
Jay Robinson
Yeah, I mean that's really what it boils down to. I mean there's no requirement for it to be notarized or anything special like that. It's just you're supposed to have a letter from the non present parent that says they and it's supposed to be relatively specific. That said, not just a blanket, this child is allowed to leave the country. It's my child so and so is allowed to go on this trip with so and so from these dates to these places. Again, like, I've never had anyone actually ask. I haven't. I think the. I don't think I've ever traveled with someone who was not 18 that I can think of. I think even some of our. Some of our friends, kids that have gone with us, some of my older friends, they're all. Their kids are all older than 18.
12:24
Jay Robinson
So I've never had to deal with it, but that is a thing that you could potentially be asked for. I'll preface this whole podcast with 99% of the things I'm going to talk about. I have never had anyone actually asked to see. But by the letter of the law, you have to have all of them.
12:38
Speaker 4
And, Jay, that radio license, that is an FCC requirement and not an FAA requirement, is that correct?
12:46
Jay Robinson
This is true. That is an FCC requirement. And so it's technically an FAA requirement by reference. The FAA basically says if you're going to act as pilot in command international operations, you have to comply with fcc, whatever that says, you have to hold that. It's. Again, we'll talk a little bit more about that process. There's no. It's kind of interesting. There's nothing about international radio procedures that you have to know to get that certificate. It's basically just getting you to give them some money. And honestly, if you can figure out how to apply for one, I think they've decided that you're smart enough to have it.
13:22
Bobby Doss
So I'm the only guy on this podcast that doesn't have that radio certificate, I guess. Well, you have to have that to travel, right?
13:29
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. And I have had FAA people ask for it. So I dug it. I dug it out. Yeah.
13:36
Jay Robinson
Yeah. And I guess since we're talking about it, this is as good a time as any to talk about how to get it. So what really tricks people, number one, is figuring out what license do you actually need? Because the FCC has a list of about a hundred different licenses you can apply for. And half the battle is knowing that you need that. Restricted radio telephone operator is what you need. And the code for that is RR is what you're going to be looking for. And in classic fashion, you have to make two different logins in order to actually obtain that license that you need. You have to create an FCC Commission Registration system account, which they call Corsair. And once you get a KORS account, then you can get an FCC registration Number which you'll see them refer to as an FRN.
14:27
Jay Robinson
Once you have an FRN, you can use the FCC's license manager website to go and actually apply for that new restricted radio telephone operator license. So again, you got to jump through a few hoops and I think they figure if you're smart enough to figure all of that out, you're smart enough to have a radio license. When we talk about aircraft, if you're operating an aircraft that you own, you'll have to go through the process of getting a station license for your aircraft as well. Most of those steps overlap. You'll use the same CORS account, the same FCC registration number, and then you'll just do another application through the FCC license manager website. That's a little bit simpler. It's just ac. Aircraft license is the code for it. So it's a little bit more self evident what you need there.
15:15
Jay Robinson
That aircraft license is good for 10 years. Your restricted operator license never expires. So happy to. If anyone ever needs some more detail, feel free to reach out to me and I'll help you walk through that. But there's quite a few steps to it.
15:29
Bobby Doss
I'm sure it's ever changing, but how much do those cost? Do you know?
15:33
Jay Robinson
You know, it's been a while since I've done it. I could look real quick, but I want to say it was a hundred some odd dollars for the airplane the last time I helped somebody get it. And I think it was 75 if I remember right when I did mine. I need to update that on here. But it's not a huge expense. And again, the airplane's good for 10 years. Yours is good for life once you have it.
15:58
Bobby Doss
Yeah, quick search on Google says that it costs 35 bucks for the person. Okay, does not talk about.
16:04
Jay Robinson
So maybe it's 35 and 75. Either way, not huge expenses in the grand scheme of things to get those licenses.
16:11
Bobby Doss
Perfect. Wally, you were gonna say something?
16:13
Speaker 4
Yeah. One thing that comes up on checkrides all the time. I ask, I'll ask the applicant what documents we must have on board the airplane. And they always tell me, radio station license. If we're going international and we will go off the reservation a little bit and I'll say, well, since you brought it up, I mean, we're going to Garden City, Kansas today, we're not going international. But since you brought it up, what radios need to be listed on that radio station license? And it's a little bit of a discussion. And it's any radio that Transmits. So then we have a discussion of how many radios do we have on our typical airplane that transmit? You know, everybody will say well we have two. And I'll say, well we actually have four.
16:59
Speaker 4
And then we get into the transponder, we get in the ELT, you know, we have COM1 and COM2. And if you have an airplane that has traditional DME does transmit. That's how it works. So that would need to be on there as well.
17:15
Bobby Doss
Yeah.
17:15
Jay Robinson
And again, it's been a while since I've done an aircraft application, but I, if I remember right, it gives you the option to add all the different radios that you could potentially add on there.
17:27
Bobby Doss
Right, Cool. So we've got the two certs licenses that we need for the pilot and the airplane. What's the procedure you mentioned? Paperwork. If I'm smart enough to Google and do this paperwork, what else paperwork do I have to do to be able to get myself into the Bahamas?
17:46
Jay Robinson
Yeah. So there's a few other airplane things and most of these your airplane will already be compliant with. But just to rattle through them relatively quickly, you either need a standard airworthiness cert, Light sport is now defaultly accepted. If you have a home built aircraft, you have to have what's called an airworthiness validation document for that. Again, we could do a whole podcast on how to get one of those. So I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it, but just know that there's some additional requirements if you have a home built. If your aspiration is I just bought this airplane, I'm really excited to go fly it to the Bahamas. Unfortunately I have bad news. You must have a permanent registration certificate. You can't fly to the Bahamas on your temporary registration.
18:30
Jay Robinson
That's one that catches people out from time to time if they're not aware of it. Your usual stuff, you have to have your operating limitations, weight and balance information. You have to have a data plate on the airplane. One that occasionally catches out people with older airplanes or experimentals again is The Bahamas requires 12 inch registration marks regardless of how new or old or certified or experimental the airplane is. You can literally comply with that with masking tape if you want. You just have to have legible 12 inch numbers on the airplane. Other things that you actually have to go out and get, you have to get what is called a customs decal. That's basically proof that you have paid the customs entry tariff.
19:17
Jay Robinson
If you don't get that in advance, you effectively pay the same one time fee every time you go in and out that you would pay for a full year if you get that. Unfortunately, that's a whole other account and website that you have to make called DTOPS to get one of those customs decals. It's 39.95 I think is the current. It's either $39.95 or $32.95. Not very expensive to get a customs decal. You go in there, create an account. That's one of the few websites that's actually modernized. They use the single sign on like login.gov login. So if you have one for the IRS or something else, you can use that, the same login for this. So a little bit of convenience there. But one more thing that you do have to go and get for the aircraft.
20:02
Jay Robinson
The nice thing about that one though is you are allowed to just carry proof of purchase if you don't have the decal yet. Once you get the decal, you just stick it on the airplane. Most of us put it inside the door jamb so it's easy to see for everybody when you open the door, but it's not getting blown around in the wind. Other things for the airplane, again, pretty standard stuff. You do have to have an altitude reporting transponder even if you would be otherwise exempt from those requirements. Not that this applies to most people, but if you have any non standard fuel tanks on the airplane, which would include tip tanks and stuff like that, you are technically supposed to have a copy of your 337form for that.
20:47
Jay Robinson
I've heard people argue that's only for tanks that are installed in baggage or passenger compartments. And I've also heard people argue that the Bahamas have told them that' any additional fuel tanks that aren't standard. So something interesting to know about. Never had it come up personally, even on airplanes with tip tanks and other things like that. But just something to know. So again, a few other things you have to do for the airplane. The only international specific one again is going to be getting that radio station license like we talked about and then getting that customs decal. That decal is good for a year at a time. The only unfortunate thing there is it expires December 31st of every year.
21:26
Jay Robinson
So if you get it in November, you only get two months out of it and you have to get another one for the next year. They're literally just. You would get a 2024 decal if you bought one now. So that's kind of the other aircraft stuff as we roll into what paperwork do you actually have to do to depart the US and arrive in the Bahamas? The primary thing that you're going to have to do is file what's called an e APIs. That's electronic advanced Passenger Information System. That's how you tell customs that you are either departing or arriving the US who you are, who's the flight crew, who are your passengers, and where are you going. So thankfully, that's all electronic now. You just create an EAPIS account. Again, we'll have links to all these things and how to get to them.
22:13
Jay Robinson
But you create that account, you can fill in your information as a pilot so that you only ever have to do it once. You'll have to fill in your passenger's information every time. A little point there to save you some time. If you frequently fly with the same other pilots, you can also enter them as pilots in your E. APIs account. But make sure if you're going to list somebody as flight crew that they're actually acting as a flight crew member. Again, I've never had it come up, but the advice that I've been given is even if you have another pilot, if they're sitting in the backseat, you probably shouldn't list them as flight crew. So really, what you have to do on the way out of the United States, there's a few things to consider.
22:54
Speaker 4
So really, you have to start with whatever your Bahamas itinerary that you want. You're going to have to start with an airport of entry. They're typically designated on the charts. Again, if you're ever in doubt, I recommend calling ahead, and I frankly recommend calling ahead either way just to make sure that they don't have some special holiday or something where customs is not going to be there that day that they haven't told anyone about. Typically, you're not going to run into that at the bigger airports of entry, but at some of the smaller ones, we've had some kind of, I don't want to say close calls, but times where they're like, well, we're not really sure if anybody's there or not.
23:32
Jay Robinson
So I always recommend giving them a call on the phone and just making sure somebody's there, even though the Bahamas don't require it. Unlike the United States and the Bahamas. It's really nice. You can fly to any airport of entry you want. You don't have to stop at the first one that you come across if you want to go. You know, an example, one of the places we really like to go is called Stella Maris and It's probably three quarters of the way down the island chain, but as long as you have the range for it, you can fly straight to any airport of entry for your planning purposes. So when you're going to depart the United States, there's a few things you have to do. You have to use that EAPIS account and file what's called a notice of departure.
24:12
Jay Robinson
That's again, basically you just telling customs that, hey, this aircraft with these people on board is going to depart the United States from this airport at approximately this time. That notice has to be filed at least 60 minutes before departure, but you can file it effectively as early as you want. You could file it a week in advance if you wanted to, but at least 60 minutes before you depart and then you must receive an automated email back from the system that gives you clearance to depart from the United States. On your way out. You have to file either IFR or Defense vfr. Probably something a lot of us haven't talked about since that theoretical conversation during our private pilot training.
24:53
Jay Robinson
But if you're not instrument rated or your airplane's not instrument capable, that special Defense VFR flight plan that lets them know that you are going to be crossing the adiz. Once you get up in the air, you must be in communication with ATC and you must be on a discrete squawk code. Do not let them try to send you offshore on a 1200 code. Make sure they give you that discreet squawk code before you get to the inner edge of the ADIZ again on your way into the Bahamas, you're just going to get handed off to them. They're very laid back. They're going to help you get to your airport. And again, just make sure that your first point of landing is a Bahamas airport of entry. So that's kind of the basics of getting out of the United States.
25:36
Jay Robinson
Landing into the Bahamas is a pretty laid back affair most of the time. Again, I recommend that you have any and all of these documents that we've discussed ready. But 99% of the time they're just going to ask to see your passport when you get there. You'll fill out a few copies of what's called a C7, a cruising permit. That's basically just your kind of permission to island hop around while you're in the Bahamas. I'll tell a story about that one in a little bit here. But a key point there is to make sure that you keep that available in the aircraft at all times. And secondarily that anyone who's Going to fly the airplane while you're in the Bahamas on that form should be listed as flight crew.
26:18
Jay Robinson
So if there's multiple pilots and the pilot on this form will not be in the plane every single time. Make sure to list anybody who's going to fly on that C7A form as flight crew. They're pretty insistent that's how that's supposed to be. On this most recent trip, there was me, my wife and one of our good friends in their airplane and got into the Bahamas very uneventfully. Again, we landed at that Stella Morris airport that were talking about and my friend's daughter wanted to go with us, but we could not all go in the airplane and carry enough fuel to go where we wanted to go. And her daughter is a little bit of a nervous flyer. So she took an airline flight to Exuma, which is about 10 minutes by GA airplane away from where were ultimately going.
27:08
Jay Robinson
So we landed at our destination airport and my wife and friend said, hey, we'll go check into the hotel. Will you fly over to Exuma and pick the daughter up? And I said, yeah, no problem. So I jumped right back in the airplane after we had cleared customs and shown our passports and blast off. And 10 minutes later, land in Great Exuma and pull up to the ramp at the fbo. And very nice people came out and they brought a golf cart out to me even though I was only in a small airplane. And I thought, you know what, this is pretty nice. I'm having a good day today.
27:40
Jay Robinson
And then they asked to see my C7A permit, which I did not have because it was still in the file with all the paperwork that we had filled out one airport away, 10 minutes away. So ended up not being a big deal. They eventually accepted a photo of that being sent over and let me go on my way. But long story short, make sure you have that form with you all the time when you're in the Bahamas, even if you're not leaving or departing the country. That's what they're really going to be looking for at most of these airports is just to see that's your proof that you've already cleared customs, effectively is what that form is.
28:17
Bobby Doss
Was that a one minute delay or what kind of delay was that?
28:21
Jay Robinson
Was that was. That was about an hour of them making phone calls and deciding what they needed to do. They made it very clear right off the bat that they're like, look, you're not in trouble. We just have to figure out what kind of paperwork we need to do to make sure that this all gets processed and it doesn't mess up in the system and show that you were somewhere where the computer is going to think you never were. So yeah, that will shave about an hour off of your flight, off of your travel time if you make sure you have that form with you.
28:52
Speaker 4
So you didn't get handcuffed or anything like that?
28:54
Jay Robinson
Didn't get handcuffed. It was the joke for the rest of the trip that I was Bahamas most wanted for the rest of that trip. But yeah, ended up being a non event. They were very nice about it, very professional about it. You know, I made it very clear. I'm like, look, we filled out the form. The form exists and is signed. I just do not have it in my possession. That's on me. Like they sent over a picture of it. They called the airport where we landed and they're like, yeah, they just landed here like 30 minutes ago. We did all their stuff. So it ended up not being a huge deal. But again, dot the I's, cross the T's and keep all your paperwork with you.
29:29
Bobby Doss
Much better story if you say you were most wanted. I think I'd leave it like that.
29:32
Jay Robinson
For, for the random person. There you go.
29:35
Bobby Doss
What else?
29:36
Jay Robinson
It was, it was a good time. So I mean really that's the, the meat and potatoes of getting there. I mean there's a lot to talk about in terms of what to do while you're there.
29:48
Bobby Doss
Really.
29:49
Jay Robinson
The things to know. The only thing that catches people out about flying around in the Bahamas again is information in terms of its availability and quality. Your mileage may vary. So I always recommend any local knowledge that you can get is as good as gold over there in terms of, hey, you know, if you fly over to this airport, I heard that they don't have any fuel right now. And in terms of our expectations for notams and information like that, it's very spotty in terms of really having good quality information. So local knowledge is really important. Developing a relationship with the people at the airports, you know, be nice like they're there, they're doing a job.
30:30
Jay Robinson
If you're nice to them, you're polite to them, they're going to make your life a lot easier and they're going to help you out and give you advice and tell you things like that. So really important. In the Bahamas you cannot fly VFR at night. That is a big one that catches people out. Again, I don't know anyone who's like gotten in trouble for it. But the letter of the law is you can't fly VFR at night. And the only places in the country with any control towers, radars or instrument approaches are Nassau and Freeport. So as you plan your days, just make sure you give yourself plenty of time to get on the ground before sunset. And again, anywhere you're flying around in the country, just make sure you have that C7A with you.
31:09
Jay Robinson
But there's, you know, in terms of total airports, probably there's got to be a hundred plus total airports around out there. In terms of popular places to go, there's 25 or 30 great places to go. We really like the Exumas. That's kind of like your picture postcard. Bahamas, you know, white sand beaches. There's some great places to go where you literally land and pull the airplane up. And the parking area is about 10 steps from a white sand beach that looks like it's out of any movie you've ever seen. So, you know, definitely great place to go to, relax. You know, you can get to a lot of places that are far less traveled, going there in your own airplane.
31:54
Jay Robinson
You know, to be completely honest, Nassau and Freeport, the Bahamas that most people are familiar with and go to are not really my deal. Not places that I would spend a lot of time. But some of these out islands, as they typically call them, have some really great places to stay. You know, you're there with a few other people, you've got a really nice laid back atmosphere and you know, you can find anything you want. There's places we fly into and we'll do boat rentals for the day. You know, you can, anything you would imagine doing at a beach destination. There's an airport where you can fly to that's probably within about 20, 30 minutes of wherever you base yourself and do whatever you can imagine doing on your dream beach vacation.
32:36
Bobby Doss
Yeah, that's the kind of, that's what you would go to the Bahamas for, in my opinion, right?
32:39
Jay Robinson
Yeah, I mean, island hop and go.
32:41
Bobby Doss
To places that you don't take a commercial flight to. Sorry, Wally, we're not going to ride with you over there. We're going to ride with the little guys. And that's what makes this a fun trip.
32:49
Jay Robinson
I think it really does. Absolutely.
32:52
Bobby Doss
So how do we, is there anything special we have to do to leave the Bahamas? Is there anything we have to do to return to the United States? Like any gotchas there on the coming home leg?
33:02
Jay Robinson
Yeah, I would Say absolutely. So once you've had your fun, flown around in the Bahamas, when you're getting ready to leave, ultimately you're going to have to pay an exit customs fee person. As of this year, I think it was 29 a person the last time that went. You'll turn back in that C7A form at the last place where you leave. I forgot to mention on the way in, not an additional complexity, but they're going to get you for, I want to say it's $150 is the per aircraft customs entry fee. So just be aware that's something you're going to have to pay when you get in, and then you're going to pay $29 a person when you leave. So leaving the Bahamas is relatively easy. Getting back into the US Again, you have to land at an airport of entry that has customs.
33:50
Jay Robinson
And unlike the Bahamas, in the US you have to land at kind of the nearest airport of entry to where you are going to cross into the United States. So you can plan your flight to go as far up Florida as you want, but once you kind of turn in and hit the coast, you can't. For instance, you couldn't overfly Palm beach and keep going on to Tampa unless you have explicit special permission to do so. You've got to apply for that in advance. If you're based in Florida at an airport that has customs that's not on the east coast, that's one of those things that makes sense to do, but for most of us, it's not going to make any sense to go through that process.
34:27
Jay Robinson
Before you leave the Bahamas, you have to file through that EAPIS system again that pilot and passenger manifest. A notice of arrival is what they call it. Again, you can file that as early as you want, but it has to be at least an hour before you're going to depart. And the real gotcha coming back into the United States is you must call on the phone and talk to a customs agent before you take off, at least an hour before you take off. And you want to make 100% sure that conversation that you at least write down, like a note or something, that a customs agent is going to give you their call letters, much like air traffic control would sometimes if you're talking to them.
35:07
Jay Robinson
So if you talk to somebody at Palm beach, you know, I would typically write down something like, you know, called Palm beach Customs at 1500 for a planned departure. At 1600, spoke with Agent Alpha Bravo for my flight arriving at 1600 Alpha Bravo acknowledged and didn't mention any issues. That two letter identifier of that customs agent is kind of like your get out of jail free card. If they forget to do what they're supposed to do when you're coming in. Failure to file an EAPAS and failure to talk to them is a serious deal. You will get fined for it and those fines are pretty significant. You do not want to surprise U.S. customs on your way in is going to be a bad time for everybody. Thankfully that's not one that I've had to deal with.
35:52
Jay Robinson
But out of having been told many times to make 100% sure you don't get in that situation. Additionally, you just want to give yourself plenty of leeway on that itinerary. They're going to expect you to cross into the United States relatively close to the time that you specified in your manifest. So again, I know a lot of us are used to, well I said I was going to take off at 4, but I really may not take off until 4:30. Well, just make sure you give yourself time to be on time when you're coming back into the U.S. again, you have to file IFR or a defense VFR flight plan. You got to be in communication with ATC and on that discreet squawk code before you cross the adiz.
36:32
Jay Robinson
So generally you're going to get handed off to Miami like well before you get anywhere close to the usa, but you just want to make sure that happens. Once you get to your airport of entry, just tell either tower or ground, whoever you're talking to that you are going to customs. You definitely want to go straight there and comply with their instructions on how to get there and where to park. And just be prepared to show all of your entry documents, your passport, all your aircraft documents. They'll inspect the airplane relatively casually. They'll usually bring out like a substance sniffing dog. I've had them bring out a Geiger counter and wave it over the airplane a few times over the years, checking for nuclear material or anything like that somebody might be trying to sneak in.
37:16
Jay Robinson
But really it's kind of like going through customs when you come back from an airline flight. It's just a smaller facility. You go into this little room and it's funny, it looks like a miniature version of the customs hall. At any airport they have their little booths. You go up, you talk to them, you show them your passport, they ask you where you were, they say welcome back to the United States and you circle right back out around and you can Fly your airplane onwards to wherever it is you're going. So again, the big takeaways with coming back is you just have to get that E APIs filed and you have to have that phone call with customs at the airport you're actually going to clear at.
37:51
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I don't think of anything good coming from not making that phone call from what you're saying. Like I don't think the man or woman that's going to inspect your plane is going to be any less inspecting or any less happy or any. I just think that would be bad. So make the phone call for sure.
38:07
Jay Robinson
Yeah, it's definitely. Make the phone call. It's easy. It should take you 30 seconds to have that conversation with them. They do it a hundred times a day, every day. And again you're. I've never had anything come up, but I've just had people tell me over and over again, make sure you get those call letters from the agent because they're sitting there punching something into their computer and if they don't do it or go on break or something like that and there's nothing in there, you can say, no, here's, here's on my phone where I called and I spoke to Alpha Bravo or Delta Whiskey or whoever it was and they'll say, okay, you're. You get out of jail free.
38:42
Bobby Doss
Awesome. Well, I definitely learned a lot. Jay has put together a great PDF that he shares with friends and others. We're going to make sure we put that link in the show notes and then you can go click on that link and download that document. You can always send me an email. I'll make sure you get the document. Anything to close with Wally.
39:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, Bobby, what is tomorrow?
39:08
Bobby Doss
Tomorrow is. Well, tomorrow is going to be October 1st and that's our four year anniversary, I believe from our first show.
39:16
Speaker 4
Four years. Four years. Who'd have thought?
39:20
Bobby Doss
Did you ever think you'd make four years of pods?
39:23
Speaker 4
No, no. I mean when we first had this conversation, he said, what do you think about a podcast? And I said, I don't know anything about a podcast. And you said, well, you do. So here we are. And I. Let's see, how many episodes are we into?
39:42
Wally Mulhern
This is well, 153.
39:45
Speaker 4
Yeah, about 346,000 downloads.
39:50
Bobby Doss
Yeah, it's going strong. We appreciate all you listening for listening and if you have ideas or you want us to talk about something fun like flying to the Bahamas, let us know. You want us get to get a specific guest, let us know. We'll hopefully keep doing this for many years to come and you just keep liking the show. You keep giving us five star reviews and we'll keep recording and putting out good podcasts. Jay, thank you so much for joining us today.
40:17
Speaker 4
Yeah Jay, thanks.
40:18
Bobby Doss
We appreciate your insights on flying to the Bahamas and hopefully many people go there safely and make that customs phone call when they turn around to come home.
40:27
Jay Robinson
Absolutely. Thank you guys for the invite and looking forward to hopefully participating again in the future.
40:32
Bobby Doss
Awesome as always. Thanks for listening and stay behind the Prop.
40:38
Nick Alan
Thanks for checking out the behind the Prop podcast. Be sure to click subscribe and check us out online@bravetheprop.com behind the Prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co host is Wally Mulhern. The show is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember, fly safe.