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00:01
Behind the Prop Intro
Clear prop 773 Cherokee number two following Flynn traffic three mile final makes for Din Runway two five going four mile.
00:10
Nick Alan
This is behind the prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot Bobby Doss and his co host, major airline captain and designated pilot examiner Wally Mulhern. Now let's go behind the prop.
00:25
Bobby Doss
What's up, Wally?
00:26
Wally Mulhern
Hey, Bobby, how are you?
00:28
Bobby Doss
I am fantastic as always this week we probably. Well, over the last two weeks we've gotten a number of questions from listeners. We love your questions. We love your. Hey, can you do a show on this? This week we've got a number of questions that are kind of pieces and parts. So we're gonna do a listener's question episode and talk through some of these things that people asked us for. It's been a few days, but Tate from Natchez, Mississippi sent us a question about the benefits of using GUARD and maybe how best GA pilots can use guard. Wally, why don't you tell the listeners what GUARD is if they don't know what GUARD is?
01:10
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, GUARD is the emergency frequency, which I think most of us know. It on a VHF radio is 121.5. On UHF, it's 243. And how do you remember that? Well, it's 121.5 times 2. Not that we need to know that because most of us don't fly airplanes that have UHF frequencies. But anyway, it's 121.5. Basically the emergency frequency. How do we use that? Well, you know, a lot of people say, should we be monitoring that frequency on another radio? Well, I will say as an airline pilot that every airliner that's flying around is Most likely monitoring 121.5. And you know, if you're flying along and you have an emergency and you're already talking to atc, just stay with atc, tell them, hey, I got an emergency. This is going on. I need to do this, I need this. And they'll take care of you.
02:22
Wally Mulhern
You know, you don't want to jump over to 121.5 if you're already in contact with air traffic control. But the benefits to monitoring GUARD is we all know, or most of you know, most ELTS will send out a signal on 121.5. So as an airliner, it's not too uncommon to be flying along and all of a sudden you hear an ELT going off. And so, you know, as soon as we hear that, we report to atc, you know, Houston center, whatever our call sign is, where we just picked up an elt and of course they know where we are. And then a lot of times center will say any airplanes in the vicinity of you know, the XYZ vor, can you check to see if you hear an elt?
03:24
Wally Mulhern
And you know, so that might be the very first indication that an airplane has gone down. And I know if I'm in an airplane that goes down and activates the elt, man, I want help there soon rather than later. So I appreciate all of you who are out there who are monitoring 121.5 so that you know, that's probably the easiest or most common use of it. You know, a lot of ATC facilities monitor and can transmit on 121.5 and we've all been on cross country flights where you're flying along and you know, you're talking atc, maybe you're on an IFR flight plane, you're talking to one whatever center and then all of a sudden you realize, wow, it sure is quiet. And a lot of times you'll hear people key the mic.
04:20
Wally Mulhern
You know, Kansas City center, this is so and so are you still there? And you know the center controller may come back. Yeah, we're still here. It's just a quiet night. Okay, good. But a lot of times you don't get a response and that's kind of an oh boy feeling because you know that possibly you missed a handoff but possibly the controller missed handing you off to the next center. So you're out there kind of on your own trying to figure out what frequency you should be on. And you know, you can usually look it up and figure things out, but a lot of times you'll hear them transmit on 121 5. You know, they'll say, Hey 1266 Bravo, are you on the frequency? If you are, contact Kansas City on 123.7. So you know, it's used that way as well.
05:14
Wally Mulhern
So it is something that, you know, I think is a good thing to monitor. Maybe not in the terminal area. Of course in the terminal, I mean there's usually not a lot of action going on one 2015, you know, and we're with the airline where we're going across the ocean. We're communicating via a data link. Basically we're texting to ATC. But we have one rad that is monitoring 1215 all the time. And then we have another one that is monitoring air to air all the time. And that's where, you know, the different airliners are saying, hey, who's out here in the vicinity of this intersection? Anybody, you know, getting a good ride? And that kind of stuff. What are the winds there? That kind of stuff is going on the air to air frequency.
06:07
Bobby Doss
Yeah. And there's some, you know, I would think there's more planes that have two radios today than one radio. And that second radio might not be doing anything unless you check the weather when you get within 20 miles, if you can get the weather that far out from where you're at. But like we said, if you're talking to an ATC station of any sort, stay with them. Don't switch over to an emergency frequency. But if you have one radio, maybe a comm one, there are some tricks. If you are on a frequency and you missed something or need to switch over to an emergency frequency. The 430 and 530 both can immediately tune to 121.5 if you hit what we used to call the swap button, but we just saw it on a document. It's now called the flip flop button.
06:56
Bobby Doss
I'll never call it anything other than the flip flop button. But if you hit and hold the flip flop button for two seconds, whatever frequency you're on, it'll switch right over to 121.5. And that's a pretty useful tool if you don't have a second radio and need to get on it for some reason if you are having an emergency. And then I have been that lost guy between two controllers and didn't need to use guard. But it would have been nice if someone would have told me they're looking for you and I could have switched over because it was a dark, long flight at night that it got quiet for a real long time. And I wasn't appreciating that quietness and ultimately looked it up on the chart and found who I supposed to talk to and we reconnected.
07:39
Bobby Doss
But it can definitely be eerie out there for sure. So, Tate, not a whole lot of interesting stuff there necessarily, based on your email. We've kind of repeated some of the things you said, but I think it's just the best practice. And if you can do it, you know, you might get some safety people to somebody five or 10 minutes earlier, which obviously could save a life, no question. One day.
08:02
Wally Mulhern
Yeah. And, and I just want to jump back on the flip flop switch bandwagon. You know, if you are Flying with a Garmin 430 or 530. And you have that feature. And, and I'm guessing the G1000 does the same thing. I don't know for sure, but I would highly recommend using that feature because when all things go wrong and you're in a situation where you're going to transmit on 121.5, it's probably a bad day. And the data shows us that we get dumber in those situations. So it's real easy to tune in 121.55 and start transmitting. And guess what? There's nobody home on 121 55. So just use that feature. Hold that flip flop button for two seconds. And that two seconds seems like a long time if that engine just quit.
09:03
Wally Mulhern
But it'll get over there and then you're where you need to be.
09:08
Bobby Doss
It's probably not going to turn the wrong thing if you use that feature. For sure.
09:11
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
09:13
Bobby Doss
So one of our avid listeners named Dion sent a note and said, hey, you mentioned in a recent podcast that you like to fly by the numbers. And he's not necessarily confused, but was questioning whether that's the numbers to ATC, whether that's the numbers on CHTs, whether that's the numbers for something else. And what I meant when I said it was I don't feel. I don't fly by feel.
09:40
Wally Mulhern
Right.
09:41
Bobby Doss
I think I hear a lot of people flying by feel. And there's going to be times where you need to fly by feel, where you need to visualize in my high, low, fast or slow. I mean, that's reality of this world that we live in. But as I make a plan, I pick my power settings, I pick the RPMs, I pick the manifold pressure. When I fly the 182, I know what I want to climb out at. I use flight level climb, which is a feature in the Garmin G1000 that lets you climb at a constant airspeed. So the autopilot will hold. Normally, I like somewhere between 95 knots and 100 knots, depending on what the density altitude is and what my climb rate's gonna be at that.
10:21
Bobby Doss
But to me, that's so much more comfortable than using vertical speed, where vertical speed might be 500ft per minute, but it sometimes you might get really slow at 500ft per minute in a hot summer day in Houston. So I like to fly by the numbers, Wally. And I like to land by the numbers. I like to not necessarily the numbers on the Runway. But I like to land. I like to know what VREF is at. Full flaps and really kind of build that the numbers plan. It makes it a lot easier. I'm a math guy, so that's. Numbers seem to make sense to me. What are your thoughts? I'm sure you see a lot of different perspectives on checkrides.
11:02
Bobby Doss
Maybe a little bit of guidance from what you see on checkrides, and then maybe how the airlines do it, because they've got to have a better plan than just a wing and a prayer.
11:12
Wally Mulhern
Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story about the numbers. I was a very young pilot, maybe even a student pilot, and I was talking to my father one time and he was an old season pilot and he said, he asked me, he says, what does it mean when you say you have the numbers? And, and I said, well, it means I have the end of the Runway in sight. And he says, no, what it means is that you have the weather. So I mean, this is kind of, I kind of went off on a tangent. But when you talked about the numbers, there's an example of. I had heard people say I have the numbers. I thought that meant they had the Runway in sight, but really it meant I have ATIS information.
12:02
Wally Mulhern
Charlie, back in the day, way long time ago, they didn't have ATIs, they just broadcast the weather. So what you would say is that you had the numbers. I know the height of the clouds, the temperature, the altimeter. That's the numbers that they were talking about. Anyway, that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. But anyway, as far as the performance numbers, what I see a lot of on checkrides is just rounding up or rounding off. And I, I can see it. But then it's probably not the best way to do things. And my point is the majority of check rides that I do are in Piper Warriors, Archers, 161s, 181s or Cessna 172s. And most of the applicants, I will, you know, we'll talk about the cross country and I'll say, okay, we're going from here to there.
13:09
Wally Mulhern
And I'll say, okay, how far is it? I'll say 320 miles. And right off the bat, okay, I've just done the math in my head. 320 miles. I'm expecting it to be about 3.2 hours, which is 3 hours and 12 minutes. And I'm expecting the fuel burn to be less than 32 gallons and a Lot of times they'll just tell me, you know, they'll give me the time because they plugged it in foreflight and they'll tell me we're gonna be burned 32 gallons. And I'll say well where are you getting 32 gallons from? And I'll say well we just use 10 gallons an hour. And I'll say well where'd you get that? And a lot of times they'll say well that's just what we use. If you.
14:03
Wally Mulhern
And I've got to say the, the, the Czech ride community has gotten a lot better on this. This was, this is six, seven years ago. And I'd say, well let's maybe, let's really dig into things. And if you're in a 172 and you're flying at 65% power at 6,500ft, 7,500ft, your fuel burn is probably less than 7 gallons per hour. You know, maybe 6.8 gallons per hour. Now that's a big difference from 10 gallons to 6.8 gallons per hour. That, that's, you know, that's a 32% difference. And that's probably, you know, that's probably not the greatest thing to do to just say, well we're going to burn 32 gallons. Now you can say, well it's, we're over inflating our fuel burn so it's all extra fuel. It's to the good. You certainly wouldn't want to go the other way.
15:09
Wally Mulhern
And, and I understand the argument but from an examiner, you know, I want to know pretty zeroed in how much fuel we're going to burn on this flight. And you know, you figure your time and fuel to climb it's going to take on this 320 mile flight. Let's say it's going to take 50 miles to climb to 7,500ft. Well now we've got 270 miles left. Well, some of that's going to be the descent. Well, how much of that time is actually going to be in cruise? And sure, yeah, your foreflight will calculate a number for you, but it's based on all the numbers that you put in, whether you used one of the can profiles or whether you said, okay, my airplane climbs at 85 knots, my fuel burn during the climb is this and all that.
15:56
Wally Mulhern
It depends on how you've got your foreflight set up. So you know, I just be caution you to really dive in to the book and figure out what your numbers should be. And as I said with, with my Saratoga, it's a 43 year old airplane and it is scary how accurate the numbers are. I mean my true air speed is usually not more than three knots off and we're talking about 165 knots. So you know, what's 3%? I mean three knots, about 2%. That's pretty doggone close.
16:39
Bobby Doss
Yeah. That's amazing. And we could talk about all of the potential bad of miscalculating the fuel on the shore side. But, but I think, I always think back to these trips and things that I've done that were for me abnormal. I don't, I don't fly across the United States as often as Wally does, but I have flown across the United States a couple times in a single engine aircraft and it seems like I've always got a massive headwind. Right. And it sure would be nice to know exactly what those numbers mean. Right. Because these planes 43, 40 plus years old. I'm not so sure these fuel gauges are something that I'm going to trust.
17:17
Bobby Doss
And I'm, I'd really like to know what that manufacturer and what Lycoming and everybody says is the fuel burn at this altitude with this much power leaned at this much, you know, thinking about leaning at an altitude like that, I want to get that really as low. I want to be economical with my fuel because I'd like to land with more than less. And if I was going to know those numbers, I'd like to know those numbers on the right side of bad for sure. No question. But it also gets down to we. I think as silly as it is, I bet most pilots and most students, even my flight school probably haven't thought about Runway distance since their last checkride. What do you think, Wally?
18:04
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I, I'd agree with that.
18:07
Bobby Doss
And I bet you think about it everywhere you go. I'm just assuming that you fly a triple seven and you probably need every bit of concrete in most cases where you go.
18:18
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, yeah, I mean we, we have the luxury of getting data tailor made for our situation. We know the exact winds, we know the exact temperature, we know that the, you know, elevation. You know, we're not using generic data, we're using tailor made data for Runway 26 in Denver for instance. So.
18:43
Bobby Doss
Well and everybody listening to this show got the same data in their fingers in foreflight. I mean they've got an airport button and they Click the airport, they're gonna have the same stuff, more than likely, especially at a Denver, they probably got digital ATIs nowadays with four flights flight, if they have maybe the middle subscription or better. I think that. I think that the reality is in. In these smaller planes, every Runway is probably enough room for us to land three or four times.
19:12
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
19:12
Bobby Doss
But today, yesterday was really freaking hot here in Houston. Like, really hot. And I would suspect that people needed a lot more Runway to take off than they were used to. Well, that starts creeping in your head, like, is the performance wrong on this aircraft? And if you feel like the performance is wrong, then you might start making other bad decisions or making decisions to not go or go. But I bet the book, like you said, the Saratoga book, I bet if you looked it up and said density, altitude is 3,500ft, it's 110 degrees, and the humidity is 50%, I bet you would be able to probably articulate. You needed 1200ft to get off the ground instead of the normal 800ft.
19:55
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
19:56
Bobby Doss
And to me, it's just reassuring to know that's either right or wrong. And I'm making quantitative decisions as I'm running down the Runway and not. Not making my mind go a little cuckoo because it seems like it's taking longer than it should.
20:13
Wally Mulhern
Right, right.
20:14
Bobby Doss
Same thing with landing. I'd like to know if I'm going to be able to turn off at that next taxiway or if I'm not going to go off the end of the Runway. I don't land the short runways either, but I kind of want to have a plan where I'm going touch down and where I'm going to roll out to.
20:30
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think it's important to have some rules of thumb in the back of your mind. I mean, I. I just asked someone the other day, you know, what. What is our landing distance going to be? And, you know, they came out with 2,000ft. And I was thinking to myself, that's not landing distance, that's takeoff distance. And as we dug into the. The data a little bit, they came back and said, oh, no, actually 960ft. And, you know, I'm thinking. And they said, oh, I was looking at the wrong numbers, you know, And I use this example all the time. You go down to the local cafe, you order a burger, fries, and a soft drink, and they tell you it's $71. I think we would all say, what if they say it's $12?
21:33
Wally Mulhern
You'd probably say, yeah, okay, that sounds reasonable. So it is nice to have an idea of what it's going to take of what number you're expecting before, you know, we go to the store to buy a, a pair of shoes. You kind of know in your mind what your budget is, what you're going to pay. And, and a lot of times I get answers on check rides that are just totally crazy for that 340mile cross country, it's going to take an hour and 18 minutes. And I'll say, wow, we've got some good tailwinds today. And the applicant might say, well actually we have headwinds and I give them the look and they, you know, sometimes they pick up on it, go, wait, that doesn't make any sense. So, you know, apply some common sense to it.
22:34
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I refer to that as the smell test. And I've had a few examples recently to tell someone that just doesn't pass the smell test.
22:40
Wally Mulhern
Right.
22:41
Bobby Doss
I would bet, like you said, you were talking shoes and what you're going to pay. I bet most of us would know when it was a really freaking good deal. So if you were going to go to the store and you saw at the nicest tennis shoe store you have in your mall, there was a podium and they said the newest pair of Michael Jordans 1999, that everyone would know that was better than most foot joists or foot shoe stores, that price is a heck of a good deal. Right?
23:13
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
23:14
Bobby Doss
And yeah, if Wally in a checkride asks you how long is it going to take US to fly 320 nautical miles and you say about 47 minutes, it's not going to pass Wally smell test on the low side of that as well, right?
23:27
Wally Mulhern
Absolutely, absolutely.
23:28
Bobby Doss
We know when it's too good to be true.
23:31
Wally Mulhern
Right.
23:31
Bobby Doss
What other, you know, what about the airlines? Do y' all anything else from the airlines perspective that y' all do from the numbers?
23:37
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, you know, a lot of people are just interested and this is another piece of information. This and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. But, but what we do is with the airlines, we have, when we get our flight plan, we have a cost index. And for the 777 that I fly, the cost index is between 20 and 400 and so on a typical flight, let's say we'll have a cost index of 36. Okay. We enter that number in our flight management computer and the computer is going to program a climb speed, a Cruise speed and a descent speed and that's how our flight plan is based on. It may take, say a flight to Honolulu is 8 hours and 8 minutes based on a cost index of 36.
24:36
Wally Mulhern
And you know, we, once we get up to cruise, we will go in and take a look at our numbers and we'll say, well Geez, we are 10 minutes late at this. If we fly the whole flight at this cost index, we're going to get in 10 minutes late. And we don't want to get in late, we want to get in on time. So we will increase that cost index, maybe go 36, maybe bump it up to 50 and we'll take a look at what our new arrival time is. Now we're to going faster, we're going to burn more fuel. So we got to look at the arrival time and we got to look at our fuel over destination or, and see if, if we can afford that.
25:23
Wally Mulhern
If, now if we're landing, you know, with two hours worth of fuel and now we're going to land with an hour 54 worth of fuel, that's probably something we can live with. So it's not so much coming up with an exact power setting as it is flying this cost index number. And the other way around. I mean if we get off the gate early and were expecting delays and we didn't get delays and we got airborne 10 minutes ahead of time, maybe we had a cost index of 36 and we're going to get there 20 minutes early. Well, maybe we can bump that cost index or bring it back to a cost index of 20. And now we're going to get there 12 minutes early and save quite a bit of fuel.
26:14
Bobby Doss
And I might not know this exactly right, but I know, I've heard stories and maybe you've told me some of them. That cost index, whatever that metric means in the grand scheme of things, that might change power settings, that might change altitude, that might change a whole lot of things and in your flight profile. But ultimately it's going to either save the company money or cost them a little bit of money. But ultimately you're going to know more about the time versus the cost and make those decisions as the flight crew or dispatch might tell you what to do, I assume.
26:45
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, absolutely. And we would communicate if we're going to change things, you know, if we've got a cost inject of 36 and we're going to bump it up to 50, I would, I would send a message via Text message to our dispatch say we're bumping up the cost index to 50 for an on time arrival. New fuel over destination is going to be X and our estimated time arrival is going to be, you know, 1300.
27:18
Bobby Doss
Fantastic. So it's all about the numbers in the airlines as well for sure. Some of that being on time arrivals and some of that being money as well.
27:27
Wally Mulhern
Right.
27:28
Bobby Doss
The last question we have this week and we'll touch on it a little bit, we'll reference a previous show but Aiden asked about what to expect From a Part 141 College Aviation Program and we did an episode quite a while back now with the director at the time at Liberty University. His name was Brian Huffman. Brian now works for King Schools as their, I believe his title is vice president of revenues or something like that. He's the lead of their sales org. And we broke down a lot of what you can expect from Liberty. I think Liberty is probably very similar to all the others. There's not probably a whole lot of variance. But for Aidan's question, I think the unwritten part of Aiden's question is what can I expect from a cost timeline, benefits, pros, cons, etc.
28:23
Bobby Doss
We recently got the chance to go to Eastern Kentucky University and speak to their students and it's a 141 program with opportunities to have a restricted ATP at either a thousand or 1250 hours. And I think the beauty of a college program is you're kind of killing two birds with one stone there. You're getting the college component knocked out while also getting the flight training component knocked out. We, we seem to prepare a lot of students to go from a local flight school here in Spring Texas to a college program. Most college programs seem to be encouraging students to knock out the private before they get to the college program. And I think the biggest reason for that is plane availability nowadays. Right.
29:13
Bobby Doss
There's so many pilots and so few planes and in a college program if everyone was doing a private there'd be a whole lot of solos and dual instruction going on. But instrument commercial is kind of different where there's not quite as much dependency on the instructor and the airplane at the same time. But if you are considering a college program, I found a list online. There's dozens and dozens of institutions that have been Approved to be 141 programs that are higher education authority type, you know, accredited colleges like a Liberty, Eastern Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, down here. Auburn has a big school that I know some students go to it, OSU and OU both have flying programs.
30:03
Bobby Doss
So what you're doing is you're going to college and probably you have to get entered or accepted into that college and then you probably have to get accepted into the flight programs. And these don't seem to be easy to get into. It's not like I'm going to pay the tuition and I'm guaranteed to get in. These programs are getting harder and harder to get into. So you apply if you get accepted. Most wants you to have your private now and again. I think that's from airplane availability. If you're a professor or somebody affiliated, let us know if I'm right or wrong there and then all programs require you to get, to my knowledge, all programs require you to get your instrument and your commercial part 141 through their organization to have any capability or any access to their restricted ATP.
30:48
Bobby Doss
And that's a FAA thing and that's probably a college requirement as well because they want you to participate throughout their programs and you take their ground school or their college courses. Maybe you're taking some English 1301, some math courses while you're taking the ground school for private and the flying component for private. I'm pretty confident that every university has a local fleet and they probably partner with external companies like United Flight Systems. Our affiliate with Liberty is a strong relationship where we do the flying components of their training and they're doing the college components of their training. And it's a win for students because they can stay remote and take that course online and do the flying in our planes. But you're gonna have the regulations of their training course outline. It's called a TCO and this is 141 stuff.
31:42
Bobby Doss
But that TCO is what dictates what the school is going to deliver to that student. The regulations for instrument say 35 hours of flight and 35 hours of ground. Those are the minimums. Well then the school creates their TCO which may have 36 hours of flight and may have 41 hours of ground. I would suspect most schools meet the regulation minimums, but they have all kinds of other things that they've written into those TCOs that are their school's requirements for you to complete the course. And only when that TCO or that training course outline is complete will that school give you a graduation certificate.
32:22
Bobby Doss
The interesting part Wally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but once you get graduated and eligible for a check ride, then a designated pilot examiner, whether the school has self examining authority or not, whoever's going to do that exam no longer needs to look at the details in your logbook. If you have that graduation certificate, is that correct or incorrect?
32:44
Wally Mulhern
No, that's absolutely correct. So it actually.
32:47
Bobby Doss
Graduation.
32:48
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, like their graduation certificate is gold. But the thing about it is it's good for 60 days, the graduation certificate. So typically, you know, you may have a checkride with someone on August 15th that has an August 1st graduation certificate. And if you, whatever, let's say you discontinue the checkride for high winds, you know, you tell the applicant that they have 60 days to complete the checkride. But I always tell them that it does not extend any of the other expirables. And I make up that word. I don't know if expirables is a word, but in this case, the, you know, the expiring limiting date would be August 1st. So yeah, we still have to finish within 60 days of that.
33:45
Bobby Doss
So a lot of times I think we get caught up or get wrapped around what this Part 61 regulations say. And people based on the rules being different, they just try to check all the boxes that are in the 61 regulations. And then when they go to 141 or they think about considering 141, they do something similar as they go to the far and they read all these things and they start thinking about, well, I'm going to study 35 hours at home. Well, that doesn't count. You have to do whatever the TCO for that flight school says, and you have to complete their requirements for the ground to be able to be eligible to graduate.
34:23
Bobby Doss
Likewise for the flying, the regs are the minimums for a 141 school their TCO will trump, meaning that this is probably more difficult than the regs and you need to read their TCO or be aware of their tco. There's, there's three components that I think people need to understand when they start thinking 141. There's regulations, that's the minimums. There's a TCO, which is the school's rules that are on top of the regulations and required to be completed under different sets of rules that we'll go into another show probably. And then there's a syllabus more than likely referenced in that tco, whether it's a professionally published syllabus like the King School syllabus, or whether or not it's something that they wrote. I think some really big aviation colleges have written their own syllabi and they use their own syllabi.
35:22
Bobby Doss
But you need to know the syllabus, the training course outline and the regulations if you're going to be a part 141 college student. And then make sure that if there's some advantage, ie a restricted ATP that you're really honed in on, what are the requirements to earn that so that you don't go through all that effort and then not have access to that restricted ATP again. You're gonna take instrument commercial, from my knowledge, at any of these programs, some might require you to take multi engine or CFI or other courses, but those also will have regulations, syllabi and a training course outline that you're gonna have to follow. And it's gonna take multiple semesters to complete these courses along with the flight training.
36:06
Bobby Doss
So understand what their expectations are, whatever their program is, understand what their entry requirements are, understand how to get accepted and then know that you're gonna have a level of structure that isn't required for all 141 training, but a level of structure that college is gonna dictate for you to be successful. A lot of the misnomers or misinformation that I hear from people is, well, I can only do 141 if I'm part of a college program. Absolutely not true. Anyone who wants to take the courses that I have tcos approved for from the FAA can come to my flight school and take 141 at whatever pace they want to take it at to complete their training for their private instrument commercial flight instructor and flight instructor instrument certificates.
36:54
Bobby Doss
The VA people say, well, I can't use my VA benefits unless I'm tied to a college. Not necessarily true. In some cases that's true under things like the Hazelwood act and other things. But the reality is you can use VA benefits at United Flight Systems as well without being affiliated with a college. But sometimes it's easier or better if you use the college, as I will say, a fulcrum or an entry point into that training facility as well. But it is definitely not required. So ask questions. Feel free to reach out to me if you have questions. I'll try to help. But what you can expect what Aiden asked what can I expect from a college program?
37:33
Bobby Doss
You can expect them to guide you and lead you to an outcome that's going to be success 99% of the time by doing and delivering part 141 training based on a syllabus, a training course outline and whatever the regulation minimums are. For sure, probably structure. It's not going to be any more difficult. It's just going to be structured based on the rules that they've set that are above and beyond the regulations. We did a Show on Part 61 versus Part 141 probably a year and a half ago. The content hasn't changed. They've not made any changes to those regs since we published that show. I highly encourage you to go back, search the Internet for that website or that show on our website behind the prop.com and go listen to that track.
38:19
Bobby Doss
Good information on the pros and cons and the whys and why nots for each of your ratings and certificates. Wally, three good questions that ended up being a lot more than we thought they were going to be as it relates to time on the clock as we record this show. Anything to wrap up with as we go?
38:36
Wally Mulhern
No, I just. Well, yeah, I, I just want to say thank you to all the listeners. We had a. We went over 200, 000 downloads since our last show. So we're over about. We're. We're approaching203,000 as of right now. But just thank you to everybody. Thank you for sharing the show, thank you for listening and we appreciate it.
39:03
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I haven't asked in a while, but if you feel compelled, if we are doing a good job, please, wherever you listen to the show, give us a five star review and let other people know if we're doing good work and if we haven't earned it, let us know what we can do to earn that five star review. As Wally said, share the show. We're listening every day around the world and it's humbling that our little hobby project turned into a global aviation podcast that we hope is helping many of you out there. So thank you so much and as always, listen to the show, share the show, fly safely and stay behind the prop.
39:42
Nick Alan
Thanks for checking out the behind the Prop podcast. Be sure to click subscribe and check us out online@brave.theprop.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co host is Wally Mulhern. The show is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember, fly safe.