Let's talk muti-engine flying this week!!
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00:01
Behin the Prop Intro
Clear prop 773 Cherokee number two following Flynn traffic three mile final makes for Din Runway two five going four mile.
00:10
Nick Alan
This is behind the prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot Bobby Doss and his co host, major airline captain and designated pilot examiner Wally Mulhern. Now let's go behind the prop.
00:25
Bobby Doss
What's up Wally?
00:26
Wally Mulhern
Hey Bobby, how are you?
00:28
Bobby Doss
I am fantastic. This week we're tackling something we've talked about I think for almost the full three years now. And we're gonna talk multi engines or as we like to say behind the props. And the twin at the fly school's been real busy. You've been given a lot of check rides and you're working hard on training your second daughter now in the twin and another instructor. And we thought it would be timely to dive into the transition to multi engine aircraft and talk about the things that I see as a flight school owner we see as pilots and multi engine rated pilots and talk about your training experiences and your checkride experiences and just pass on everything we can about multis, maybe a spattering of checkride things and help those people out there that are gonna tackle that multi engine rating sooner than later.
01:21
Bobby Doss
So really just gonna fly off the cuff here and really dive into the learning process. And for me as a flight school owner who offers multi engine training all par 61 at UFS, it's weird how people go about it. I make recommendations every time. Hey, use the SIM a lot. Get make sure you know the book work. It's in comparison to an instrument rating or a commercial rating. The book works like 25 sheets of paper compared to entire handbooks from the FAA. You don't really have to know a whole lot of book content but you really have to become a superior pilot in my opinion.
02:02
Bobby Doss
I don't think I was a great pilot but until I became a multi engine pilot just because of the two engines and the brain has to work twice as hard and things are happening really quick in your training because it's normally about one engine operations in that aircraft. So I don't know what the nation looks like, but let's say Houston, Texas. The average rental rate for a light twins somewhere between 300 and 350. And a simulator is probably between 65 and $85. One of those seems very obvious than the other to practice all of your stuff. Wally, what are your thoughts?
02:40
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, absolutely. Let's just use $300 an hour to make the math easy. That's $5aminute, $5aminute, just imagine just sitting in your living room and every minute taking a $5 bill, scrunching it up and throwing it in the garbage can. I'm not gonna say you're throwing your money away, but that's the rate at which you are burning through $5 bills.
03:07
Bobby Doss
One every minute you are throwing it away. If you're sitting at the whole shoreline at David wayne hook's for 20 minutes, that's a smooth hundred dollar bill.
03:16
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, you are. You absolutely are. There's so much that can be done in not an airplane. Whether it be in a classroom, whether it can be in your car driving down the road. I know my oldest daughter and son in law would be driving down the road, you know, going through mixture prop throttle, maintain blue line or whatever. The drill that you learn through your, your instructor. But they would just quiz each other on that constantly. And the more ingrained that becomes in your mind, just the more money you're going to save when you're in that airplane. You know one issue I think we have today with multi engine training. Back in the day, back in my day to get a commercial pilot certificate you had to have 10 hours of complex time.
04:14
Wally Mulhern
Complex meaning you got to have control, you know, movable flaps, a retractable landing gear and a controllable pitch propeller. I don't know, five, six years ago the rule on that changed that we could now use time in a technically advanced airplane. And I'm not going to get into all the definitions but we can have a 172 that's a technically advanced airplane. We can have a Piper Warrior or a Cherokee, an Archer, whatever that can be a technically advanced airplane. I flew in a fairly old 172 this morning. Doing an instrument checkride has been totally redone and it's actually a very fine airplane right now. But it's an M model. M is a mic model 172. So it's probably, you know, probably a 1976 model. So it's a 47 year old airplane but by definition it's a technically advanced airplane.
05:21
Wally Mulhern
So what is happening is people are coming in for multi engine training with very little complex time. They're not used to a gear, they're not used to controllable pitch propellers. Some multi engine airplanes are going to have cow flaps. They're certainly not used to that. I think most people are used to flaps. Most of our airplanes do have flaps. So the learning curve is steeper. They're not, you know, again Back in my day I was kind of used to the gear and the propeller. So I, I might say before you jump in, if you're going from a 172 to a multi engine airplane, I, you know, and again, most of the multi engine airplanes do have a controllable pitch propeller. Some do not, but I haven't flown any like that. But there are some out there.
06:15
Wally Mulhern
It might not be a bad idea to go get some time in a Piper Arrow or a Bonanza or something like that. That's a complex airplane. Before you're spending $300 an hour, spend $200 an hour or $180, whatever those airplanes rent for.
06:35
Bobby Doss
Yeah, at our school we really preach, and we're lucky we have an Arrow, but we really preach that 10 hours for that commercial rating really should be in that complex aircraft. The TAA time does not compare to a plane that's got the, that prop and that gear and those movable flaps. And you become the workload gets a little bit more as you're in that complex aircraft. And if you do 10 hours in that during your commercial rating, that's 4 or 5% of your flight time throughout those 250 hours. That's, that's a good chunk of time. And if you do 25 landings in it, you're going to not forget the gear. You're going to know what the gear horn feels sounds like and that what that sounds going to do to your brain and you're going to just be a better pilot, no question.
07:22
Bobby Doss
And it's going to make the transition to Maltese easier. I know you had a sim session yesterday at the flight school and use the sim in the multi configuration. How valuable would you say that was in comparison to being in the real cockpit?
07:41
Wally Mulhern
It's gold. It is extremely valuable because we can do things in a simulator that we're not going to do in an airplane. For instance, okay, the drill that I teach for a multi engine, if you lose an engine mixture, full forward prop fall forward throttle through full forward. Maintain blue line. Flaps up. Gear up. Maintain blue line. Identify dead foot, dead engine. Verify by pulling the throttle back of the suspected engine feather mixture checklist. And every instructor is going to have maybe a variation on that. Of course, all along maintaining directional control flying the airplane goes without saying, but we can, you know, but we're not going to, in the airplane we're not going to completely shut an engine down unless we're very high. And I say probably, you know, well above 3,000ft. AGL, we're not going to completely shut an engine down.
08:49
Wally Mulhern
Now we will set up zero thrust. So we will simulate feathering the engine, but we're not going to completely shut it down. Well, in a simulator you have the luxury of being able to set it, shut it down. I mean completely shutting it down, feathering it and mixture. You have the luxury of doing that at 300ft above the ground. Yeah. Okay. What if we crash? Well, we crash, we hit reset, we go back to the end of the Runway and we start all over again. That's the beauty of a simulator. The other thing we can do in a simulator is we can go bam, bam, bam. We can take off, lose an engine at a very low altitude where as per the acs in the real airplane we're not going to pull an engine below 600ft Aglip.
09:38
Wally Mulhern
But in a simulator we can do it lower so we can get a little bit more, you know, we can push the limits a little bit more. In the simulator.
09:51
Bobby Doss
I like the boom, boom too because you can literally practice that, you know, 50 times in 50 minutes if you wanted to. And go back to the Runway, reload back to the Runway. And in an aircraft you just can't do that. That's one of those magic secrets. Simulator is shooting approaches. You can shoot, I say at least six or seven to one in the, from the airplane. I can shoot seven approaches ils in the sim versus one that I can do in real life because I have to fly all the way back and line up and start over. Same thing with multi training. One real quick clarification or comment. Maybe the listeners that aren't multi engine training rated wannabes may not know what blue line is. Can you describe blue line? I'm a multi engine pilot, but you'll do a much better job.
10:41
Bobby Doss
Describe blue line and the importance of blue line and why that's in that flow. For all those that maybe haven't had any training yet.
10:48
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, Blue line is best rate of climb single engine. So we call it by which is best rate SC single engine. Best rate of climb single engine is depicted the airspeed indicator with a blue line and it may not give you a climb but it's going to give you the least descent. So let's say the airplane blue line is 85 knots. At 80 knots you may have, I don't know, I'm just making up numbers. But maybe at 80 knots you've got 100 foot a minute rate of climb. At 90 knots, you may have 100 foot a minute rate of climb, but at 85 knots, you may have a 400 foot a minute rate of climb. And you know, the numbers are all relative. Maybe, maybe at blue line you've got a hundred foot a minute rate of descent.
11:47
Wally Mulhern
But 5 knots below blue line or 5 knots above blue line, your rate of descent may be 400ft per minute. So blue line is the speed that it's the best the airplane can do. And the best the airplane can do may not be a climb, depending on, you know, all the external factors.
12:10
Bobby Doss
And there's another thing that I remember learning was that there's a specific, that, I mean, that gives the, the rudder and the air deflection mechanisms on that aircraft the abilities to still control that aircraft. If you get slower than that, is there not a possibility that you could lose directional control on a single engine?
12:30
Wally Mulhern
Well, that's redline. That's, that's. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, that's the lower one. That's vmc and that's a different speed that we don't want to get near that. And we go up to high altitudes and we actually do a demonstration of vmc. We kind of show how that all works. But there is a point where, yeah, I mean, you've got two engines, one mounted on each wing, and if one fails, the airplane is going to want to turn into the direction of that dead engine because all the thrust is coming from the other side. So we're going to use rudder to counteract that. And you know, rudder, the effectiveness of the rudder is proportional to the amount of air that's going over that rudder. So the slower we go, the less air going over the rudder, it loses its effectiveness.
13:28
Wally Mulhern
That's why, you know, maybe in flight, you know, your, you know, the amount that you have to input the flight controls, whether it be rudder, aileron, or elevator, is minimal. But down on the approach, it's much more just because we got less air moving over it. So, yeah, that's a speed we definitely want to stay away from is the red line on the bottom end, which is called vmc MC standing.
13:55
Bobby Doss
For Minimum Controllable Right Brain Fart by me. But I knew those two lines were important and we should call those things out for the listeners. So you're in the sim. That's another thing that you just would never try to actually play with in an aircraft. I don't know if this, if you did it in the sim, but it was the sim, did the sim respond as if you were losing directional control if you got below red line?
14:19
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, definitely did. Yeah. And it was, it was great. I mean to be able to go up to, you know, we did it a high, at a high altitude. I think were up at 5,000ft and it worked just like the airplane.
14:39
Bobby Doss
Wow, good stuff. So everybody asks how much is it going to cost me? These are still training topics but everyone says how much is going to cost me my mult engine rating? And there's this, I mean in my mind it's probably if you're a current regular flying pilot, it's going to be somewhere between 7 and 10 hours of flight in the aircraft. And I think it just varies to how much you work on the ground. I've seen people fly 25 hours to get their multi engine rating and they never spend a second in the books. You know, they just keep getting in that aircraft and while they're flying at 3,000ft they, you know, the instructor simulates zero thrust and they go through this, the flow. They do no chair flying, they do no ground. That's extremely expensive.
15:27
Bobby Doss
I think if you did the book work and did the right amount of ground and did the right amount of homework, probably flew a sim or chair flew enough, I think anyone can get done between seven and 10 hours in a light twin and be checkride ready. Does that sound about right for you, Wally?
15:47
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I think that's, that's reasonable to think of that. And you know you're going to go out, you've got to do some steep turns, you've got to do some stalls, you have to do an emergency descent, a VMC demonstration. We're going to shut down an engine, we're going to start one up, we're going to maneuver around on single engine and then we have to do an engine out instrument approach if the applicant is instrument rated. And then we do an engine out takeoff and we do a short and soft field takeoff and we do engine failure on the ground. So basically rejected takeoff. So there's quite a bit the, you know the typical multi engine checkride is just a lot of maneuvers and you know the check ride can normally be done in about 1.8, something like that.
16:51
Bobby Doss
Yeah, you know, I think mine was like two hours and it's back to back. I mean you're trans, you're almost transitioning you know, from the rejected takeoff to a short field takeover, a takeoff of some sort. Then you're climbing and you get the altitude, you're starting your steep turns, you do all that, you climb up more. It's just back to back. It's just non stop. It was quite fun actually.
17:14
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, yeah. And you know I think one people like about multi engine training is there's no knowledge test involved in it so you don't have to go take a written test. Now does that make people think, well there's no book work involved. Maybe it does. There's actually quite a bit of book work involved in multi engine airplanes, you know and it's probably an airplane, you know a lot of flight schools. It's the, it's a, I mean you might fly in a Cessna and your multi engine training might be in a Piper Seneca or a Beechcraft or something. So for a lot of people it's just a, it's a different type airplane than what they're accustomed to.
18:08
Bobby Doss
Everything's in a different spot. Every button's in a different place. Yeah, it's two, two maybe two ignition switches of course, two alternators, two masters, you know, one master switch. But a lot of double duplication that you're not really used to and fuel tank selectors, multiple. It's, it's just a lot of effort but again I can't stress enough how much chair flying can be done and really resolve a lot of that. The flying components that you're practicing. What's the, what's a typical oral look like? I guess if you could talk us through that real quick as an examiner for those that are out there listening, really it's kind of the knowledge that you're going to be that the ACS requires you to talk through.
18:58
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, well I, I kind of put it into three buckets. We're going to talk a lot about multi engine aerodynamics and you know the, the simple aerodynamic, the basic aerodynamics are the same for every airplane. But when I say multi engine aerodynamics, how does losing an engine affect us? And that's that whole rudder thing that were talking about the effectiveness of the rudder and getting so slow that the rudder can no longer maintain directional control. So we're going to spend a lot of time talking about that. That's the VMC Velocity Minimum Control. We're going to talk about that, we're going to talk about the systems on a multi engine airplane and we're Also going to talk about performance. So there's some, maybe some different performance charts in a twin engine airplane that we may not have.
19:55
Wally Mulhern
We have a lot of airplanes have what's called an accelerate stop distance, which tells us how much room basically to accelerate, to take off speed and lose an engine and reject and come to a complete stop, how much Runway we need for that. So there's some different aspects of that, you know, and for a lot of people, they maybe they're used to flying a Piper, a Warrior or something like that has manual flaps. Well, they may be in a multi engine airplane. And now for the first time they're dealing with electric flaps. So there's the whole aspect of well, what about an electrical failure? How do we get the gear down in an electrical failure? How do we get the flaps down with an electrical failure? And you know, going to give it away.
20:51
Wally Mulhern
The answer I'm looking for is the checklist that's what I want to hear people say. And people kind of usually start going through procedures and I say yeah, okay, well you may be right, you may be wrong, I don't know. But really what we want to do is we want to go through the checklist and probably in most airplanes if you have electric flaps and you have a total electrical failure, it's going to be a no flap landing. So then we jump in the books and look to see if we have any data to support us on a no flap landing. And the older airplanes don't have it. There is. If you look up, how much Runway do I need to land this airplane with no flaps? It's not in there. So what are we going to do? Are we going to add 10%?
21:42
Wally Mulhern
We're going to add 100%. And I don't know what the right answer is, but it's worth thinking about. Let's say our normal land distance for our airplane is 1500ft. Or that's what the book says, is that we need 1500ft to come to a stop and we have no flaps. Are we going to land on a 3,000 foot long Runway? I don't know.
22:12
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I remember the accelerated stop distance was something that was kind of surprising just because it is a single engine pilot. You never really even think about that or even contemplate, you know, you've maybe thought at best about short field takeoffs and landings. But it was interesting that the short Runway at hooks creates that margin of error next to nothing if you were to take that accelerated stop into account. And I just Would never take off on the short Runway if I don't have to, you know, because of that margin of error being so small. And probably never land there unless it was almost an emergency. Right. Or the Runway was closed and I was running out of fuel. I mean, the landing is probably safer than the taking off in that case.
22:57
Bobby Doss
But you only get really one shot at it, and one shot for sure if you're one engine on the little Runway.
23:04
Wally Mulhern
Yeah. You know, my first aviation job was working as a lineman at a FBO and flight school. And we actually did pipeline patrol. And I remember talking to one of the pipeline pilots one day and I said, man, it has to be so stressful flying around at 300ft or whatever altitude they fly at. He said to me, he said, actually it's not stressful because if I lose the engine, there's no decision to be made. I'm going straight ahead. Whether it's whether I like what I see or whether I don't like what I see. I'm going straight ahead. And it kind of made me think. And then you apply that to multi engine flying. If we take off in a twin engine airplane and we lose an engine, we might have some options. Do we keep flying or do we just land it straight ahead?
24:05
Wally Mulhern
Whether it be in a field or a golf course or whatever, we have some more options. Now those options have gotten people in trouble because sometimes they've made decisions that they probably shouldn't have made. But we do have options in multi engine airplanes.
24:26
Bobby Doss
Yeah. And that was kind of eye opening too because. And everybody's opinion is a little different. Much like our conversations around emergencies. Right. You know, is it really an emergency? And how far can I go on a single engine in. In my light, twin in. In Houston, See almost sea level on a nice day. I think single engine is around 33,500 in that plane. Call it a hot day, we'll call it 2500. I can probably maintain 2500 if I have that single engine. I mean, I can fly a long way. I go a long way on a single engine at 2500 all the time in a Cessna. Right. So no reason why I couldn't get to hooks or get back to my home base. But there's all kinds of risk involved in that because now you are down to that last engine. I know.
25:20
Bobby Doss
I learned a lot. One of the things, one of the things in Twins that I think is fascinating is normally you hear about all the incidents that have. Have occurred. It's normally not one engine that Quits Wally. I think that's the training scenario we use a lot. But why do both engines normally quit in multi engines in the real world?
25:40
Wally Mulhern
Well, it's usually a fuel issue.
25:44
Bobby Doss
Yeah. We've had one locally in the past couple years that ran out of gas. It doesn't matter which engine, which dead foot, they're both dead. You got a dead engine on both sides and right for the one. That's the one reason I tell everybody I don't. I don't normally travel in the twin because it is really a training type device. The airspeed's about 7 knots maybe true air speed 7 knots faster than my 182. And the 182 without power is going to probably land being a force landing at 65 knots and the travel air is going to land somewhere in the 90 ish 92 mile per hour range if I want to, you know, want to stay above redline. So I'd much rather hit something at 60 than 90.
26:35
Wally Mulhern
Right.
26:35
Bobby Doss
Right. So the airspeed, the gain in airspeed is just not that much for all the fuel that I'm going to burn and all that other stuff that's going to come with it. But the options are really there.
26:46
Wally Mulhern
Yeah.
26:47
Bobby Doss
What do you see? Good.
26:49
Wally Mulhern
I was going to say just statistically speaking in a twin engine airplane you're twice as likely to have a engine failure than you are in a single engine airplane. Yeah.
27:00
Bobby Doss
And it's not unless you do. The only flying that you do is in a multi. I mean there's a lot of risk in flying a multi engine aircraft. But once a quarter like you know, I'm ne, I never am current and proficient in that plane because I just don't fly it enough. And it's one of those things where because I don't fly it enough it's harder to stay current. So I just don't really fly it that much. I got my rating and I dream and think I'm going to get proficient and fly it a bunch but the options that I have are in my situation are a little different so I might not ever stay current in it. But it is a nice aircraft. It would be nice to be able to fly it wherever I wanted to go. Right.
27:40
Bobby Doss
What do you see in checkrides we did a bunch of checkride errors and common mistakes. We did four parts in the past. If you haven't heard those shows, go back and check them out. We covered private over two shows and instrument commercial and their own shows. What, what do you see that is a struggle in the oral or maybe in the flying that we don't, we haven't had a chance to talk about those other episodes.
28:05
Wally Mulhern
Well, I'll tell you one thing I see in the flying portion, I see some instrument issues in the flying portion and you know, someone has difficulty flying an instrument approach. Well, if you're having trouble flying an instrument approach in a single engine airplane, when we put you in a twin engine airplane and then fail an engine and expect you to fly an instrument approach, it's going to be even tougher. So you know what, I, depending on the situation, I see people coming in and somebody may be, you know, maybe they're a commercial helicopter pilot and they fly a helicopter every day and they, you know, they've got their single engine, maybe commercial, maybe private and they want to get their multi engine rating. Well, a lot of times they're not used to the avionics that are in this multi engine airplane.
29:11
Wally Mulhern
So a lot of their struggles aren't multi engine issues. They're avionics issues that happen to be in this multi engine airplane. And it's really disheartening to have to say I'm sorry that this checkride was unsatisfactory because you couldn't figure out how to load the approach or you couldn't figure out how to go direct to this intersection that ATC sent us to. And it's not a multi engine airplane, It's a Garmin 430 issue or a 530 issue or whatever avionics you happen to have in the airplane. So from that standpoint I would, my suggestion would be is, you know, at least try to fly an airplane, you know, before you jump in a twin engine airplane. Fly an airplane that has very similar avionics, similar displays, whether it's a G5 or an Aspen or just traditional steam gauges or whatever it would happen to be.
30:13
Wally Mulhern
But be familiar with all that stuff before you jump in the airplane. And again, simulator can do all that for you.
30:22
Bobby Doss
Yeah, I tell this a lot and if anybody wants my recommendation they can send me an email or a message on the social medias after every onboarding orientation our school I recommend somebody going out and buying X Plane or you Microsoft flight simulator and a reasonable joystick that I recommend every time. All in. You're talking 185 bucks. That's like half of any single engine lesson probably across the country and you can use it forever on a recently purchased MacBook or Windows machine. You're Gonna be able to practice, practice. They all have light twins, they all have single engine trainers, but they all have the avionics, which is the key. It might not say Garmin, but it's a 5:30 something that looks just like it. The menus are exactly the same. Maybe that's a copyright infringement that they're trying to protect.
31:15
Bobby Doss
But the devices are all in those cockpits. Just pull that simulator software up and go through the menus. Know how to do the things that you're not proficient in. Not sitting in a plane that costs 300 plus an hour to turn on.
31:30
Wally Mulhern
Right, yeah.
31:32
Bobby Doss
What about, so the oral is, I mean people pretty good. There's not much is the, yeah, I'll go through their same acronym for the verification of vmc. I couldn't, I can't even think. It's like scum something, I don't remember what it was.
31:45
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I, I don't even know what it was. I, I, I was never so much an acronym guy. I, and I, I encourage instructors to, if they're gonna use the acronyms, to use the acronyms after the fact, teach them the material and then say oh by the way, here's a way to remember this because I, you know, I do an instrument checkride and I say okay, well tell me when an alternate is required. And people say well it's the 1, 2, 3 rule. I go well what's the 1, 2, 3 Rule? And sometimes they struggle with it. I'm thinking, man, they can throw out the 1, 2, 3 rule. But what does it mean? I don't know. But yeah, for the most part the orals go pretty well. I can't think of anybody that has struggled too much.
32:42
Wally Mulhern
You know, I think if you go through the poh of your airplane and again the systems may be a little bit different, the heaters are probably a little bit different. And most multi engine airplanes, it's not your typical single engine where we're taking heat from around the exhaust. It's usually a different type heating system. You know, we get into the fuel system because a lot of these airplanes will have more than just one tank per engine. You might have aux tanks and we may have cross feeding capability. So if we did have to fly a long distance one engine, we could get fuel from the other side over to that engine. So we'll spend some time talking about the fuel system and you know, again I, everybody, if you've ever listened, you know, electrical systems are kind of my passion.
33:43
Wally Mulhern
So we'll talk about you know, what happens if we lose an alternator? You know, is the other alternator capable of doing everything we needed to do? In most cases it is, but we may have to monitor electrical loads and maybe shut things off, but probably not. But yeah, I think overall the ground portions go fairly well.
34:12
Bobby Doss
Good. I do remember my instrument approach. I was a pretty proficient instrument pilot. But it's amazing how that the failure and everything kind of comes together just at the right time as you're being handed off to that local ATC or maybe to the tower. And it's this overload. Right. So if you aren't just super proficient, I can almost predict wherever you're at in the world, your engine's gonna fail right about that time you're getting handed off and creates just a little bit more stress. But all in all, I think the at this point, most people have 250 to 350 hours. I won't call it a checkbox, but it's probably a checkbox. For most of the pilots out there that are going to the airlines, they want to get their rating and they want to get their 15.
35:06
Bobby Doss
Is it 15 hours to be eligible for an ATP?
35:11
Wally Mulhern
Yeah, I don't even know.
35:12
Bobby Doss
I think it is 15 now. It's not much, but they pretty much are going to get their rating and split 15 hours with someone and build that time and go on and fly jets. But it's a, it is a treat to fly at the twin. It's heavier, it's not as bumpy. It's. It's much more enjoyable. If you want to be a much better pilot, I highly recommend adding that rating to your repertoire and becoming a better pilot. It will definitely do so. We didn't even get into critical engines and all the other things that come with that today, but maybe we'll do a part two down the road and do a little bit more training as it relates to multi engines. But for today, we'll wrap it up. As always, fly safely and in this case, stay behind the props.
36:00
Nick Alan
Thanks for checking out the behind the Prop podcast. Be sure to click subscribe and check us out online@brave.theprop.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co host is Wally Mulhern. The show is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember, fly safe.