We're returning to one of our most common listener requested topics: check rides! As a commercial pilot, Bobby has been through a few... and as a designated pilot examiner, Wally has seen hundreds. This week the guys run through a few tips for the big day, as well as a couple common pitfalls to avoid. From flight planning and the pre flight inspection, to the actual flight test and beyond. If you've got a checkride coming up you can't afford to miss this week's episode of Behind the Prop!
Check rides are the source of so much anxiety and stress for so many pilots, but with proper preparation they really don't have to be. Bobby and Wally work to demystify the big day a bit by running through some things you can do to come prepared and ready to succeed!
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What's up Wally? Hey Bobby, how are you? Fantastic. This week. We're going to do another show on check rides I think our listeners like when we talk about check rides lots of you out there may be studying or working to accomplish your next big check ride. Today's topic is all about the check ride day. And maybe a little different spin on what we normally do on. Check ride stuff but I think Wally and I hear a lot of different things from people out there that they do differently on a check ride than maybe they do in real life and we're pretty passionate that maybe you should do all those things you do on a check ride in your real life So we're just going to jump right in what comes to mind Wally first off That you think students hear from CFI’s about check ride day that they should be hearing and focusing on. Well I hear this a lot and probably myself as a CFI back when I was an active CFI I was probably as guilty of it as anybody but I've I think I’ve said this on the show Before but if your CFI starts statements starts a sentence with the phrase. Now on your check ride make sure you then fill in the blank That's a flag. That's a red flag that needs to come up and say well wait a minute. Wait a minute. We have two sets of rules do we have On the check ride or not on the check ride rules So if it's a check ride day. I need to have my taxi chart out and available. Okay that statement in it of itself is fine for your check ride. Make sure you have your taxi chart out and available. I agree with that statement. But I think would but I live with my family while I think basically what it says to people is. If it's not your check ride you don't have to have that taxi chart out and available and that's what we don't want we don't want to have people that You know it's check ride. So I’m going to have the taxi chart out and then tomorrow when I take my family on this flight I don't need to have the chart out and available and then you have a runway incursion and bad things happen so if you're doing something for your check ride you really probably ought to be doing that for every flight. Weather briefings, pre flights, now I get to get to witness some pretty intense. And when I say preflight some talking about the actual preflight of the airplane when we say preflight. I mean we the weather briefing could be part of the preflight and all that sort of stuff. But I’m talking about the actual inspection of the airplane I mean I get to witness forty-five-minute pre flights on check rides and I. I don't think that is what the applicant is doing every time. Would show off for you. What do you think happened in the. I don't know. I don't know. I mean I have watched Just give you an example. It may not be too out far out of the realm of reality to see an applicant. Go out and they start walking around the airplane and maybe ten minutes into it they bother to Open up the fuel caps or turn on the master switch and realize that we've only got quarter tanks fuel so then they make a fuel a phone call to the fueler and You know the fuel truck may be maybe two minutes away maybe thirty minutes away and then it gets hot so now they need to go back in and go grab themselves a bottle of water then they come back and they start Picking up where they left off and now maybe the fuel truck shows up now. It's time to check the oil. And they realize the oil is down a quart and now they got to walk back in to Get a quart of oil and they come out they put the court oil and now they got to walk back in wash their hands because they have oil on their hands Then they come back out and finish everything now. We're almost ready to go. And now they need to walk back in to go. Use the restroom before our hour and a half flight. And I’m sitting there. It's been forty-five minutes. Well that is a preflight. No question that is. What do you think that they. Maybe you don't know the answer question but do you think that they check things differently. More thoroughly more hyper focused on check ride day than they do on a normal flight. Yeah I would think so. I think that that's there's some pressure with the DPE standing off. You know twenty feet to the side you know they're watching you But there is. There is a safe way to do a preflight in twenty minutes or less. Yeah absolutely and I think some of those things which could create bad habits for some people but in a flight school environment. You probably want to check oil and fuel first for those reasons. Yeah and then start the whole process from the very beginning and then still check the oil and fuel again that fuel truck comes you're going to want sump those thanks again. So you're just you're creating more work on top of more work right now. That isn't necessarily necessary but Something you would create bad habits for sure.
That’s a good point. I mean if you know you're going to get fuel Don't sump the tanks now but because You know You know no offense to fuelers out there but never trust a fueler. My father taught me that early on. You don't know you don't know what that guy or girl is putting in that airplane. Is it is a water is water in there. is there jet fuel in there So you obviously you need to sump tanks after you have been. You've been fueled. You know the airlines will we. We teach our pilots to do is when they first get to the flight deck of an airplane. We call a comforts and consumables. Check the comforts in the consumables. Right before you do anything else. Do we need oxygen. Do we need oil do we need fuel And then the comforts are if you know if the airplanes hot go ahead and the packs on and get the air conditioning. Going get the airplane cooled down because we're about to put passengers or customers on the airplane so same thing with us if you know before you check that The cables to the ailerons Let's check the fuel because that is going to be a phone call in most cases at least the way it is around at this airport. It's a phone call to the local fueler or to come out. So in most cases I think probably for me as a as an early young private student and pilot I probably flew alone a lot. More than I flew with passengers and if I had a passenger was probably a flight instructor so I don't think I had a really good rock-solid preflight briefing that I would have with passengers and I probably didn't get really good at it until I was a multi-engine pilot because there were a lot of there were three points. I guess on the runway where you're going to make a decision to abort the takeoff or not and you really are diligent in those in the twin, light-twin for sure so when he when you're giving a when you're administering a check ride. I'm assuming every student gives you really good preflight. I think that's another one of those things that we probably get a little lazier on the further from check ride. We go until next check Ride comes up Thoughts on that. Yeah I would. I will tell the applicant Is that. I'm a novice flyer and to brief me accordingly and You know the briefings. I get are all over the place and it it's outlined in ninety-one five one nine passengers briefing and it tells you what you need to what needs to be briefed and For those the for those of us who flown on the back of airliners. It's basically the same stuff that You know you'll get a safety video or from the flight attendants on an airliner use of seatbelts. Use of exits use of emergency equipment and You know ditching. If you're going to be over water And smoking the prohibition against smoking in an airplane But all that is required. Yeah so I think. I think we probably all use some sort of a cheat sheet or something but it's a habit that again. I think we do it on a checkride because we know were being examined. We’re being Something's happening where someone's overseeing our flight but in reality we should always have a little DPE on our shoulder everywhere we go and try to meet these minimum standards For my airmen certificate in all cases doesn't make a difference if it's just my CFI it's just my daughter. It's just my son or it's the new kid. I'm taking up for discovery flight. I should be giving the same passenger briefing every time. Yeah check ride or not right absolutely and then from passenger briefing. Let's talk a little bit. About weather briefing. I mean I assume because I know what my prep was for a check ride. I had weather covering the table in the check ride oral exam room. Or I had all the information from twelve hours twenty-four hours current forecast winds aloft. I had all that stuff printed out. Now maybe the preparation in the presentation of. That's a little different for check ride. Because I’m sharing with someone who's going to look it over but I bet people don't always do the same weather briefing. They did for their check ride for a little flight in the patch. Yeah I agree with that. And I do see I think people that spend twenty-five dollars on paper and Toner Based on what they've printed out for me for a for a weather briefing And that's probably a little overkill I'm looking for. You know a valid weather briefing on to me. It can be on an iPad You know you've got the digital Depictions of all the maps and everything.
Right there I do think there's a lot to be said for talking to a weather briefer It's a second set of eyes. It's a second opinion And you may miss something You know we're going to we're going to talk to The outgoing chairman of the NTSB here a couple of weeks and I know one of his Things that he really was trying to help with general aviation was the way we get NOTAMS and You know it's really easy to miss something like Runway closure at an airport. And you know you're going to fly from point A to point B. and in between you kind of have in your mind. Hey here's a nice Alternate airport but lo and behold the runways closed And so obviously you can't land there and that's where a weather briefer really comes into play. I mean I’ve had briefings before where totally miss things are. There might be A temporary flight restriction. It's gotten a lot easier with the ad bet of the electronic flight bags when you know you tell it. I'm going from here to there at You know Eight o'clock tomorrow morning and the TFR’s will just pop up and be you know visually you can see it. So that's you know that's one nice one of many nice things about the electronic flight bags but Just talking to a weather. Briefer I think is really important. Well it's so much easier to. I used to think that that person whether they're a pilot or not they have a lot more experience with the weather. And routes and people filing things. I just always felt like they were kind of helping me. Make my decision right If they kept talking about the visibility and the precipitation and also stuff they might be telling me something without actually saying it they might be saying. Don't go right yeah. I want to go back in the day when I was in a very active flight instructor. This is back in the day. Were most Larger airports had a flight service station. Right there and one thing we could do is we could actually go down and walk up and talk to them Face to face and now is a nice thing but we had we had one gentleman there who's I don't recall. His last name is name was, Jay, and we called him Doomsday Jay. And when you when you called. And he picked up the phone Monroe flight service and it was doomsday Jay you went. Oh my gosh. I mean he is just going to give us this harsh case in all. It's it was always worst case and so we always had to filter out a little of his VFR is not recommended and he You know if we took every bit of his suggestion we probably would have never flown. But it's how the weatherman on the news today they just you know every it's going to be horrible today and probably not going to be that bad the You mentioned it. But she's skimmed kind of over it. You want to share with everybody or upcoming guests in a couple of weeks. Yeah I this is This is really exciting to me just To tell you a little story about how. I met Robert Sumwalt who just retired as chairman of the national transportation safety board. I was flying a flight. Several years ago and I was going from Houston to Washington and I was in the in the terminal and The airplane had not gotten there yet. So I was standing by the window And this gentleman came up and struck up a conversation with me and he introduced himself as Robert Sumwalt and he told me that he was with the NTSB. And I thought all okay. That's pretty interesting. He's probably an investigator or something and We talked and he was Very cordial just a just a really nice man and at the end of the conversation he handed me his business card.
And I really didn't look at it but he handed it to me and I said What do you do with the NTSB. And he said. I'm a board member. And I remember thinking to myself. Well I don't. I don't know the NTSB Extremely well I’m not sure about the structure but I don't think there are a whole bunch of board members it's not like there's three or four hundred board members I want to say. There's only a handful of board members and so He went back and sat down. And I immediately pulled out my phone and typed in ntsb.gov and sure enough. I want to say there's only about five board members well and This he was he was one of them. And so Gave me his card. A couple years later I'm reading the news and I read. Where President Trump has Appointed Robert Sumwalt as chairman of the NTSB and I read that. And I thought wow. That's the guy I know and I had sort of been following his career up with the NTSB a little bit. And you know. Every time I would see his name. I'm thinking well. That's the guy I know and So I sent him immediately. Sent him an email contact and I. I sent him an email. I said Robert. I'm sure you don't remember me but I flew your flight from Houston to Washington several years ago and I just read where you've been appointed as chairman that. What a great honor. Congratulations and all that. And he wrote back to me within probably an hour in he said. I absolutely remember you. It was flight so and so and he. He recalled our conversation and he said thank you very much. And it's a great honor and so ever since especially since that point I’ve really kind of kept up with his career and followed his work at the NTSB and Just recently retired. I want to say on. June thirtieth or may have been the first to June but And we reached out to him and asked him if he would be willing to be a guest and he will be a guest on our show here in the next couple of weeks and we're going to talk to him about What the NTSB does an accident investigation and how they interact with the FAA and how it affects all of us general aviation pilots. Yes can be a good show and many of you have put in requests for us to have a NTSB investigator. We decided. we wouldn't start at the bottom. We'd go right to the top and we're looking forward to the conversation. And I think Roberts pretty excited about to looking forward to hearing what all he has to say. So let's speak a little bit about things that cause accidents and things we do on check rides there. What about weight and balance, Wally, lots of paper weight and balances. I bet you see. How many do you think those happen. day after check ride. Yeah you know under the If you look in the preflight preparation section of the ACS. And I’m talking about private pilots here if you look at performance and limitations Under the skills area. It says The applicant demonstrates the ability to compute the weight and balance correct out of balance center of gravity loading errors and determine if the weight and balance remains within limits during all phases of flight. So we as an examiner are supposed to test them on this. And I do and I get the I. I see the struggles. I see the struggles that the applicants are going through to do what. I consider some pretty simple weight and balance scenarios You know we have Probably most of the time when you when you're working and again we're talking about private pilot. Applicants probably most of the time you and your instructor just top off the airplane. Go get it go and you know you've done the weight and balance once I hope and you you've determined that that it. It works you’re within balance. You're within weight, and then you never really look at it again so I think actually the first time somewhere in my early days. Someone said as long as it's full and we don't have more than three people were probably pretty good right. I think that that kind of stuck with me for a long time I added the Covid twenty like probably a lot of other people. So I’m not sure it's just full fuel and three people anymore but I think I think full fuel in twos is a pretty safe bet but at the same time you don't know every aircraft you're flying you really. Should do the weight and balance right. I know in my Saratoga two adults in the front seat with full fuel we're out of the CG limits were too far forward
So I have to put weight in the bank or in the back who she's wait in the back or take some fuel off Instead of one hundred in two gallons most of the time we go with eighty gallons and that's where we try to keep it in the hangars right somewhere around seventy gallons so if you just have two people we. Can you know we can sit up. Front I obviously the other option is to put some ballast in the back But then that you know if I’m going somewhere to pick people up it can be a problem now. I got to leave that ballast there and depending on what it is. I usually use cases of oil. And I don't like to leave my cases of oil and other airport absolutely. Yeah that's I think in general weight and balances something that kind of grows your maturity around weight and balance kind of grows with you as you become a pilot and the more you've once you pass private start flying instrument you take passengers you get commercial. You're having these more difficult math problems that you're solving but the reality is. You're not just can always fly single engine trainers right when working towards flying the Saratoga the malibu Something bigger faster better right. The twins very similar but opposite. In the fact that we're weight is we put weight in the front of it So that when you're doing. Vmc demonstrations that you have a lot more nose weight that it's all forward and it's safer that way you want that weight up front but you definitely wouldn't have all that weight upfront. And then put two people in the back right. And if you didn't look in that front you can't just assume that that weight it's not in there so you got to be smart about doing your weight and balance checking to make sure if there is a ballast weights somewhere that you're seeing them weighing them checking them knowing what's going on it's hot right now. We have air conditioners at this flight School they're really just a cooler with a bag of ice and you know a little extra battery power that runs them They're made for this very purpose. But you're putting fifty extra pounds in the back right now. What you only have two people. Yeah and I still have full fuel. Yeah how much does that way right. Twenty-five-pound bag ice a little bit of water cooler and a twenty-pound battery. Pack that You would put in there to plug it into right. So you're not drawing from the aircraft that's about sixty extra pounds back there that could start causing issues In the world of training. And I just think that I see a lot of people. Were really working. Hard on weight and balanced the day of check rides. And I don't see it does. I don't see the same rigor that much afterwards. Now may be people. Are doing Foreflight. They've got all the profile set up. They've done it. But I know I’ve seen people transition from aircraft to aircraft meaning high wing to low wing. I surely hope they're doing it like they didn't check ride. It does matter and it could get hurt one day and the other thing is the location of the CG. I think in general most Student pilots are taught that you want to forward CG and There are advantages to a forward CG. But there are also advantages to an aft CG and again. I'm not talking about being out of the envelope whatsoever but there are There are some performance advantages. To an aft CG you're going to get better true airspeed. You're going to get better gas mileage if you will. If you're tight on fuel that might make a difference at your destination so we have to find that that happy medium between stability and performance. We've done shows on this. Let's talk a little bit about checklists usage. The difference between check ride day and normal flight day what. I'm sure you've seen it all Wally but what would you say you presume happened the day after check ride. Yeah that's You know pretty much on every landing On the in the ACS for Private commercial and instrument it. It says proper use of checklists. Now I don't see how you cannot use a checklist. And not be proper use of checklist. I mean the first the first step improper use of checklist is to use the checklist. Right and I to me. That's I hate to use this. This I mean. It's a no brainer for me as an examiner if someone is not using checklist. Because it's just oh it's just such a horrible habit to get into you know. I fly large narrow body. I mean wide body airplanes and you know my airline. There are three things on our landing checklist. There are three items on. And I have it memorized. I guarantee most of my own. My first officers have those three things memorized as well. But we pull out the checklist we pull out the card and we look at it and we read it and we read the items and we verify everything. We don't do anything from memory. It's using the checklist and is so important. Because as again as we change aircraft and we get to complex aircraft with different props in with different gear systems and gear systems and things. What would what. Maybe three steps in a Cessna might be six steps. In a bonanza and two of them are pretty important for you to get on the ground safely right. And I’ll say I’ll six of them are important but you. You can't not use a checklist. Yeah a great pilot. Yeah and you know we. We have a lot of airplanes You know and we won't get into the whys of this but you know on piper's we typically don't use carburetor heat but on Cessna we typically do use carburetor heat so they are something that's pretty basic but again. Yeah you once you start flying complex airplanes putting those that landing gear down is a pretty big deal And then you've got cowl flaps you got the prop And if you do have to go around you're going to want to have prop full forward To give max performance for your climb So it's non-negotiable You I remember You know when we my wife. And I had kids Someone talking about things with kids. That were negotiable. And you're you know. I mean we're talking about a two-year-old and yeah. Something's weren’t negotiable. But something like wearing your seatbelt in your car. Seat in the back seat that's nonnegotiable. You're going to wear that and if you're going to cry while we're just going to deal with it because you're going to wear that seat belt in that car seat. The reality is while some people might have memorized them. Spot the same aircraft over and over and over again It is a habit that if not formed correctly could get hurt and another aircraft or the day Which would be very bad. We don’t want anybody to get hurt. So we talked a lot about preflight actions but we in general right. The whole IMSAFE do I feel bad. What external pressures all these things that we probably talk through with the DPE on check ride day really does need to be talked through and thought through on an in on a normal flight day. Yeah the other thing. I think I think about Most people take check rides. Where at the home airport wherever you normally fly. You're taking it there. And there's a level of comfort that comes with knowing the area but airspace shelve, altitudes. If you're at this airport you fly west at seventeen. Eighteen hundred feet probably You're you know. How far are you know some landmarks. That gets you outside the first shelf from the second shelf and you could fly pretty much blindfolded. Probably to the practice area and not breaking the airspace on the bravo's on the bravo shelf's but what if you're in another airport and this goes to normal day flying where I’m at another airport I can remember the first few times. I went to Austin. I flew away from their at seventeen hundred feet AGL because I just assume there was bravo shelf above me. But there's not you can pretty much climb to your heart's content out there And that that's where you get into this mindset of okay am I. Am I doing the proper planning for the area. That I’m in today. Not just what. I did my check ride which was a comfort comfortable area. I mean I’ve heard people say on one. I take a check ride right there. That a foreign airport. Because I don't know the areas. Well we'll that probably means you're not good enough pilot to fly there if you can't look at some maps and get your bearings before takeoff. Yeah absolutely. I mean I you know. I've heard people. I've never flown there before. I said well you know every one of us flies into an airport for the first time. I mean the you it. It's just going to happen it. It has to happen And you know why are we learning to fly. I mean we're learning to fly Because it's a tool. It's a tool to get from here to there and You know at some point we are. We are going to fly into places that were not familiar with and you can. You can do your research. I mean I is it You know if you can fly over to the airport do some landings there before your check ride. That's probably not a bad idea. Some local knowledge of the airport is nice. You know on a on a calm wind day. What would is the airport. They are the runway that is typically used here is do. They like to use three six or like use Runway one eight with calm winds or direct cross when Having some of that local knowledge in your You know in your hip pocket is not a bad thing and that that talks to the practice of it. But what let me. What if we were going to take that three hundred cross country. We probably couldn't go over there. Real quick and practice some. There are tools there's books there's charts there's chart supplements we. We should be able to look up. No it's right pattern or not pattern sectional we should see things like that radio numbers and prepare on the ground before you go somewhere like that. But if it says it's five thousand and seventy-five feet wide. I have a feeling when you get there. You're going to see a runway. That's about five thousand feet and seventy feet wide.
Assuming there are no NOTAMS like we just talked about Its going to look a lot like the same piece of concrete you've been landing on you. Just got to do your prep before you get over there. Yeah I guess lastly Check ride day versus normal day of flying. What's your perception on people. Making the most conservative choice on check ride day and then maybe not making the most conservative choice on a normal day. I see Over well I this is. This is a little bit of a slippery slope. But I what I see on check Rides is almost over conservativism. If that's a word and You know everybody is just spring loaded to Landing the airplane or not going I might give a scenario where you're in the air and we are short of our destination and I’ll talk about a systems malfunction and I don't I. I don't have a formal poll. I can't tell you what percentage but a I will say a key. A majority of the people will just wanted divert. They want to put the airplane on ground and I starting. Like what do you think causing that. You think we're teaching that do we think it's really the check ride day so I want to show that. I'm going to be a conservative pilot. Would what do you think might in the whole. In the whole training industry be causing. This diversion first choice. I don't know. I don't know and I don't. I don't really think they're doing that in their flight training and I don't know how much scenario-based situations the instructors are giving them. I think when they do their dual cross country they go to the airports of intended landing I would hope that. The instructors discussed divert options along that way but I can't tell you. How many times I you know. I may give a scenario where you're about fifteen minutes away from your intended destination and you have a system malfunction and you’re over an airport. That has You know a very limited Services and most of the time. The applicants going to divert to that airport now. Obviously if you're on fire or your engine is You know your ability to keep the airplane in the air is compromised. Yeah put the airplane on the ground but You know what I point out is okay we have. We don't have any of the Notams or we may have the Notams for the airport. But it's in that stack of papers and we're we haven't really Were we may or may not be really familiar with what's available at this airport And but we have planned for this airport. That's fifteen minutes ahead of us and maybe by the time we sort things out. The airport of intended landing is only ten minutes ahead of us and possible divert. Airport is five minutes behind us You know what are the consequences of taken this Airplane that has a systems problem into our airport of intended landing that we're familiar with. We know the runway length. We know the runway numbers. We know that it's got a displaced threshold. We need services they provide. We know that the pappy is Notamed out of service We're ready for that. And so maybe continuing on destination might be something. That's worthwhile. I know in the airline. I mean the first thing that we if we ever systems malfunction in-flight You know we. We try to refer to the appropriate checklist and Troubleshoot. You just took my last question there to say what's the number one thing you should do when you have any systems failure. Wally pulls out the appropriate checklist. Now well actually. The first things fly the airplane. Fly the airplane aviate, navigate and communicate but once the airplane. Assuming it's not a controllability issue pull out the checklist and see what because it. It may be a very simple fix. It may be a circuit breaker. Yep and then you would obviously continue destination. Lots of bad things could happen if you landed and you were had no juice no power. No nothing and then couldn't get. The aircraft out of there could be a very expensive removal fee to get something out of a field or out of an uproar that with no services right well. Hopefully this helps all of you on your next check ride. Hopefully it'll also help all of you on your next flight no matter what you're doing dig in Do all the same things on a normal day that you did on your check ride and you too will be safer pilot. As always, thanks for listening to behind the prop and stay behind the prop.
Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This show is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!