We are honored to have the incredible Tammie Jo Shults on the show this week! Tammie Jo is not only a former Naval aviator, but she was also the captain of Southwest flight #1380 the day her Boeing 737 suffered a catastrophic engine failure and explosive decompression. She stops by the show this week to share the adversity she faced early in her career, how she overcame it, and how she stayed so unbelievably calm the day she faced the ultimate test in the left seat of the 737.
Find out more about Tammie Jo Schults, her speaking engagements, and her books here -- The Official Website of Captain Tammie Jo Shults
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What’s up Wally? Hey Bobby, how are you. I'm fantastic. Another guest on the show today. One we've been excited to hear, talk to and learn more from. We have Tammie Jo Schults on the show today, welcome Tammie Jo. Thanks for having me. Thank you, maybe most aviators might not know who you are but we hope that everyone will get to learn a little bit more about you today. If you’re from Texas area you probably know you a little bit better because you're Quite an infamous Southwest pilot On flight thirteen eighty There was a malfunction. And we'll talk more about that later But we appreciate you taking time enjoying the show and look forward to learning a lot from you today. Oh thank you, I'm looking forward to it. Now, I understand you are retired Southwest Captain, Tell us a little bit about the beginning of your career though. Tell us how you found your way to aviation. I know some things if you don't bring them up I’ll ask some questions but tell us about how you got started aviation. Yes really I'd like to say I didn't grow up around it. I grew up underneath it and so my family had a farm and ranch in southern New Mexico and our land bordered the BLM and government land for Holloman Air Force Base. So we would get to have an air show every day. Of the fighter leading training, that is dogfighting and our big hay barn was about the only man-made structure out there for miles so they would use that as their ground reference point and mix it up overhead. And so that was really my intro to aviation. I watched it for a while and then realized, Okay somebody's in those cockpits, and it might as well be me, and I started reading about it and met my first aviation hero. Nate Saint on the pages of jungle pilot and kind of saw how he got into aviation through serving in in the Army Air Corps and I just decided I would love to do that I would love to serve my country. I grew up in a very patriotic family. I think just it. Patriotism I think is kind of worn out of a love of family which produces a love of country and so it was exciting to me. Think about doing that and it would take me know. I think seven years from that point and seven recruiters to find my way into it but it was through the Navy and I started flying. Nice and In the Navy you flew some pretty fast aircraft. As I see on your Wikipedia page and on your page you were one of the first woman to fly the F-18, correct? Yes, I feel like my history of trying to get into Flying is a good lesson in whenever you're told “No’s” you obviously have to be wise about. Is that an answer or is that an opinion? But if it's an answer, move on because the Air Force told me no a few times. They wouldn't even let me take the test. The Army said, you are not a fit for us and the navy recruiter said sure. Take tests and come to find out that the Navy were the only branch allowed women to fly tactical aircraft in tactical missions long before the combat exclusion policy was lifted. We didn't fly in combat squadrons but You know going through the navy to get. I went to the carrier and carrier qualified in two different aircraft. I did air to ground bombing, strafing, dog-fighting, low levels, low levels formation, Aerobatics, aerobatics information. I mean all the things you do to get your wings in the Navy was pretty exciting. And then I taught for a couple of years and this is where Wikipedia and sometimes things drift off is.
After I taught for two years I went into an aggressor squadron and an electronic aggressive squadron and flew A-7 and we studied Air Chinese, French and Russian weapons and tactics. Then we simulated those against our own fleet From top gun students in squadrons to destroyers and carrier groups so I wasn't an instructor pilot there. I was a bogey. You know. I was a bad guy. And so that's how our that's how we prepare our aviation and our ships to go to go on cruise and meet the threats that are out there. So when I was in A-7’s was the time that congress started looking at lifting the combat exclusion policy and there was no place in the Army or Air Force. That women were flying tactical aircraft so our squadron and a couple of others had a lot of attention at that time. Since we're the only women that were flying tactical things. Our skipper sent us to get A-7 weapons qualified. Which was something that we hadn't got on when he went through the first time in training and Pam and I went El Central, California on the last A-seven weapons debt and then about a year later we transition into the F-18. Which again women hadn't done that before and so it was. It was not necessarily a warm welcome by the folks there. However the aircraft was magical. I like to say it. It was like teaming and organizing at thousand details into an economy of mind motion. The F-18 was designed by pilots. The cockpit was designed by pilots which was kind of a new step usually engineers were who designed the cockpit but they put some fighter and attack pilots in the same room made him get along and design a strike fighter cockpit so everything is where it should be and it does what you want to do nice. So you mentioned aircraft carrier. I'm always fascinated obviously by aircraft landing. So I think anybody in aviation probably has been addicted to YouTube and watching people in on aircraft carriers and we teach short field landings today often and Cessna one seventy twos and probably takes you know a Cessna even a thousand feet if the students not really good at it. How many times have you been on aircraft carrier well. I don't have the exact number. After I went in T-twos and then I went A-4. Then I also instructed carrier landings when I was at T-2 instructor so But the funny. I mean everybody who gets into the jet pipeline knows they're going to carrier. It’s what you dream about really. Sometimes it's nightmares sometimes its dreams you now. But the funny thing is what you don't know is the first time you go you’re solo. I mean as a student. You've never seen it before. And there's nobody in your backseat. No = one wants to get hurt with you. Yeah that was kind of fun in fact my parents after my first carrier called to tell me. Could you just tell us when you get back. We do not want to know when you go. Just tell you get back. You go out in a formation. So you've got an instructor that's leading the formation so you certainly get to fly form on the way out. So you enter the pattern and come down when your signal is to get started, but there's nobody in your backseat. It really makes great sense because if there is somebody in your well the joke was that there's not enough money to pay anybody to be in your backseat your first try. I was thinking. Yeah the truth leads. They wanted your decision very small and tight and quick. And so if you if you had somebody in your back seat you might be tempted to think about what they're thinking about what you should be doing rather than you thinking about what you should be doing. And so I think there's truly some wisdom in that. Obviously, that it works but it's it is it is. It is interesting. Because I think a lot of people just from the outside where you don't realize is the angle of the deck.
You know the carriers going forward and you get your cat shot. Your catapults is off the front. Which is straight ahead and the ship usually they steam into the wind to create wind over the deck or they can go fast enough to create their own wind if there isn't but the angled deck is where you land so as you're coming in and it's about six hundred feet per minute constant rate of descent. No flare in the Navy and so we call it a crash. They you've got to constantly be doing this little right for lineup right for lineup for lineup. or else you can catch a wire. And as one of the students did. When I was a strapped onto the catapult as an instructor I was getting kind of good deal traps and I trapped in gotten over to catapult was under stress. Ready to go. And I hear this. We've got you do not eject. You got me. But I’m not even thinking about ejecting inside around and one of the students said had hadn't given that right for lineup. Tiny correction constantly and so he got in the wire but gone over the edge and but it. I mean there's just a T-2 you dangling over the edge and took them a while to get about forty-five minutes get crane out there. Get him getting back up on the deck. But it's tricky in a number of areas but it's quite frankly I feel like it's probably like everything else we do and aviation if you break it down. Understand it practice, practice, practice, practice. Anybody can do it and so you have a lot of time. I'm assuming you have some piston time and GA is probably a part of your life in some way. I've seen some pictures of twin behind you in the 206. Maybe how much how much. I guess piston time. Do you do nowadays if any. Oh a well. I had just a little in an O-2 in between the Navy and Southwest O flew over forest fires for a summer. But I we. We've owned a one seventy-seven for a couple of years. I didn’t end up flying the cardinal very much because our son was learning to fly so when we were in cardinal Mars was flying and what a great little aircraft. We're we have a Piper Malibu now and I will say I really enjoy flying that So my piston. Experience is very limited. But growing of I do angel flights with my husband's and that's an organization that I would like to put out there for GA if you have an airplane and I think two hundred fifty hours five hundred hours. Just look into that. It's such a great reason to start your engine. I know we all look for a reason to get up there and fly not only because it's fun because you need to you need to keep your scan oiled and useful and your aircraft will always run better if you keep it moving aircraft that sit still don't usually work really well so both pilots and airplanes need to fly. And it's a. It's a charity that you volunteer as a pilot. If you're not really sure about it after you look at it online. Just call the local chapter up and go on an angel flight. Be an abled body assistant we take people to and from their medical appointments and we cut you know what would be an eight-hour journey for someone that has a weekly chemotherapy or something like that into a to two-hour flight to get there sometimes get back on the same day. Any changes live. Because you know some of these from babies to older older people would have to leave their family and friends have the expense of it an apartment or hotel while they're going through these medical procedures and So it's just a great reason to get airborne. Take a friend with you. Help somebody get to their appointment or get home. And then go ahead your hundred-dollar hamburger and you've had a great reason to launch we.
We we've talked about and do some other similar organizations and I think Wally references a quite often that he gets so much more out of it than they're getting out of that flight because of the joy brings him and it's not really a sacrifice for us aviators. Maybe a little bit avgas but It is what you say. It is a great experience for both passenger and pilot for sure. Yeah definitely so Tammie Jo. Obviously April Two thousand eighteen was a big month and Southwest flight. Thirteen eighty is one that you'll never forget. Many others will never forget. Can you can you share a little bit about that day and talk us through. I mean it. It's all the training you talked about. Made you ready for that but when it happens in a blink of an eye the way it did I guess. Just talk us aviators through what. What should we be prepared for. When we're faced with a situation that's as tough as that right. I'm going to. I'm going to go back just a moment to my time in the navy as an instructor in t two's a big lesson I learned on the ground that absolutely played into that day in the air. And that is how to change in command. Man had a skipper. That said I will not have a woman teaching guns in my aircraft in my squadron very publicly Put me down about being A woman in his squadron and sent me to teach out of control flight. Which is something nobody likes to do. You've been there one. Flight of and I was destined to become the one of the instructors of it for a year. And I really took to heart the fact that I just can't let an offense get in way of an opportunity and Truthfully I don't think that was a Tammie Jo wisdom but it's something that god impressed upon me and did out of control flight and looked into ways to help. My students not introduced me to their breakfast every flight and things like that and the aerodynamics involved and so that year really played into the day that we lost an engine at thirty-two thousand six hundred feet outside of Pennsylvania and I never want to speak of stop west flake thirteen eighty without speaking of the crew. Because aviation is never a source for and in commercial aviation. It is a very big team sport. So I was the Captain on 1380 but certainly wasn't alone. That incredible crew Darren Ellisor my first officer, Kathryn Sandoval, Seanique Mallory, and Rachel Fernheimer, courageous and compassionate flight attendants and then throughout the flight. Here passengers stood up. Tim McGinty, Andrew Needham, Peggy Phillips. Begins the list but there were others. It did too so that day we just had one of those wonderful starts to the day but twenty minutes in we had an explosion on the capped inside. it felt like we were t-boned by a mac truck. Darren and I on ground later both thought we had been struck by another aircraft. I mean we just were thrown sideways. Pitched over into a dive and into the snap roll to the left. Darren and I both caught it going through forty something degrees and carefully brought it back wings level and use the rudders to straighten out the aircraft into balance like. There's a lot of things that happened I would. I would have to say you know. The book would probably be the best way to get the full measure of what was dealt with that day. But you know the explosion tore out chunks the leading edge of the wing some of fuselage, the tail leading edge of the tail and severed Hydraulic lines and fuel lines. The worst thing that it did was damaged some windows one of which blew out and so we had smoke in the cockpit as well as condensation a cloud condensation we
A shuttering that just wouldn't allow us to focus our eyes on anything until we got the nose pulled up and slowed down just a little bit Rapid depressurization we practice those which is good because that gives you muscle memory and mental memory to do those procedures. But one of the things you don't think about is the ice Pick pains in your ears. That happened kind of long before in a in the adrenaline span of thinking. Which really it kind of seems to slow down time but obviously can't do that. It just spins up your mind. But I felt like that happened a long time before we realize We're not being able to breathe either so just that That kind of moment in time not being able to communicate because of the roar and see really because of the shuttering, debris and I think that was a pretty big startled for everyone once we got control the aircraft and again that out of control flight which I taught for years every year I. I think that was a major player. In in giving me the natural reactions. Darren also very extraordinary gentlemen and aviator so. We didn't fight on the controls that we always made. Sure that there was a positive Knowledge of who was in control because when that happened both grabbed the controls the one thing. I would love to encourage aviators about. Is I think one thing. There's a short list of aviation takeaways and that would be Read your safety or listen to your watch. Your safety videos. Just there are so many true stories that clicked into mind on the way down. That helped make some really snap decisions and maybe hard decisions easy. Because I’d already seen it plain out or heard it laid out in other flights Such as we had about seven checklists emergency checklists to do on our way down and had our hands full. ATC was kind of chatty and had a switching thing a lot. I think we're going through. Different sectors can quickly and I thought about that Swissair flight that got wrapped up in checklists and ran out of fuel orbiting over an airport and crashed and killed everyone. And so just remembering you know. Keep your situational Awareness and priorities will shift back the main priority islanding. It always is so that enhance line as we get more sophisticated aircraft tighter avenues of acceptance in and out of airports in busy places. It's really easy to just get all the parameters set. Put autopilot on and monitor but at Southwest. We you know we hand fly quite a bit just because we didn't start with a lot of those bells and whistles and because we do a lot of takeoff and landings we tend to be pilots that liked to fly and so, Hand flying you know. That was definitely there was just hand. Flying to be done from that point to the ground and having a feel for the aircraft is can only be gained through him flying. You can't feel it through autopilot or monitoring. So that was that that played a big part. The takeaways aviation and people wise as soon as we were squared away enough that we knew aircraft was in control. Who who's in control. We were breathing. Oxygen I made a PA in the back. Not really knowing if they hear because the roar was still they're just not quite as loud but I made a quick PA to tell the passengers were not going down. We’re going into Philly. And got back to flying with Darren and communicating your destination communicating something We're pretty busy. So my communication was pretty brief. But at least let them know we are still in control the cockpit. We have a plan and it changed so much. I would say Not just for Darren and I to have a plan start problem solving backwards to where we were but also for the flight attendants there buckled up. They unbuckled went through a really rough aisle to help. People will with their oxygen masks and also reassure them because people were really thinking. This was their last flight and That knowledge that we do have a destination. Even though it's a rough ride and the I feel like the flight attendants actions also inspired other people There were passengers that got up some maybe before but others after seeing the flight attendants and realizing okay. Let's see what I can do to help.
And there was definitely opportunity to help in the back and So that element of hope. It doesn't have to change your circumstances but you need to share it because it does change you and habits. I would say that was a big learning Point because whatever you groom your habits to be on a good day. That's what they will. Your instincts will be that on a bad day. And you want to you have this generous gift of choice so be really conscious of grooming those good habits And so that. I would say without going into a lot of detail was out some of the wrap-up from flight 1380 and so I guess powering that back into a daily life at maybe this flight school and people were practicing learning every day. You know we. We probably take unusual attitudes a little bit for what they are. And it's a stage of check ride that we have to get through and do and probably most don't like it but it does sound like that that did save you and maybe others that day being able to control an aircraft that was starting to take control and not give it back to you. I guess the book by the way is “Nerves of Steel,” Available just about anywhere. You can buy books about any format audible to paperback hardback It's a crazy story. I have a million little questions. But I will save some of them, Wally. You're on duty today later on. You're wearing a captain's uniform right now. What goes through your mind when you hear. Somebody tells story like that. I guess what I think. is one thing I always bring up and my check rides as we talk. I talk you know one of my big things is fuel Because we've we determined forty-seven percent of general aviation. Accidents have some sort of fuel element to them. And so I. I'll talk to my applicant and I’ll say out of those forty seven percent of the accidents or percentage of those people. Do you think woke up in the morning and we're getting dressed and went thought. I think I’ll go run an airplane out of fuel today and Of course the answer zero and so I you know as I go to work I'm usually thinking that the stress on my mind is where. I'm going to dinner in in my layover city or I'm getting there late as anything to be open on my going to have to use UberEATS are going to have to use room service. Whatever and you know you never think he never think boy. What if that left engine explodes on me today and but you got to be ready for that. And that's what I commend you for. Is that Boy I you're probably thinking about your layover or where you going for dinner when you got to wherever you're going and then boom You know and you just wonder boy how long did it take you to process what actually happened or you know and you know. We've all seen the movie Sully where they really didn't know what happened for a while and it took a while and You know. I guess what I’m trying to impart on. My applicants is expect the unexpected. Because you just never know. We'll I’ve listened to sorry. I will say one last thing that to you. Know I’ve listened to the tape. Dozens of times before I even started this podcast and you're so calm. I there you can tell.
There's confusion is not the word you didn't have all the information and still your calm. ATC really did seem like they were asking a lot of information or changing radio stations channels a lot for you but I guess to Wally’s point to the fact that you were pretty calm says an awful lot as well. I will say we didn't know all the things that happened. All we knew was there was an explosion obviously there was damage because we have a rapid decompression. And were shuttering in a way that it was one of those odd things that it wasn't a repetitive shutter. It changed constantly but that was because of the tearing of cowling and the tearing of the damage. Treating symptoms you know sometimes you don't get the luxury of going. oh like in a simulator. A lot of times. You know something happens. You interpret the symptoms. And you get the checklist out you know. That's the rhythm you get into and it's a wonderful rhythm but there are things that happened. That don't fit any of that. So having that that sense of aviate, navigate, communicates and there were times when we just got to aviate, aviate, aviate and so I think you know I love even though I never enjoyed my check rides, well. I enjoyed some. The people haven't check rides but getting ready for them was one of those rates Can getting fit for track me kind of times aviation line. So I don't know in general aviation for the malibu we do have yearly training and so that still gives me that rhythm of getting into the books going through the emergency procedures. Sterling looking into the systems diagrams.
Things like that. But if you don't have that for your aircraft make a pin in your ear and make yourself your own your own check ride just because it's such a good time to think through those things while you're on the ground. Why have time to question.
Why would you do that. Why is this and where does that. You know that alternator or that fuel valve or whatever so that when things have been rapidly and without explanation you have I will say adrenaline is pretty amazing. It how well you can go back through that mental file with entity and come up with the ideas you won't have any You won't do things that you haven't prepared for but what you have prepare for. It'll be there takes time on the ground. We never been well. I guess when I started flying which has only been about six years. Believe it or not I soloed Six years ago yesterday actually The I was never really comfortable. I was always a little bit nervous in the aircraft later in life. And I get nervous when the seat belt outside the door flapping on the fuselage most less something that explodes. And we've talked about on this show. I had a near miss where the ATC here landed helicopter in front of me at right at rotation which. I really am shocked. Still be here today myself. I had hard time getting back in the aircraft. I imagine there was some hesitation nerves. I'm not sure what that is you’re a pro, I'm not a pro. What was it like the fly again after that incident. Actually there wasn't. I asked to. Gave us as much time off as we wanted. And I asked to come back three and a half weeks later I don't know if it's because that wasn't the first-time things gone wrong in a cockpit for me and So I knew it to me. It was a lot like. You know getting in your car when you have a fender bender or even worse you still need to get in your car and continue life and so quite frankly it was. It was kind of nice to get in an aircraft and I think I picked up a trip that went down to Cabo and back and I remember my first officer was fairly new. And he's kind of quiet and I. I realized you know us. Probably all I can think about is what happened to this lady. The last time she flew and I finally told him you know what it's like lightning. It can't happen twice. It won't happen twice and we had a good laugh. went on I think part of it is just the like. I said the amount of years I’ve been doing it and things hadn’t Gone sideways and then having sometimes in the aircraft couple of times. In the aircraft's that I had flown where I wasn't really sure it was going to turn out with me and the airplane landing together so that wouldn't recommend that that That I hope everything would always work. It wound up. Not being something that I dreaded and honestly I give I give the lord credit for that for helping me have a perspective that healthy perspective. I think so as a female as a woman in aviation You broke a lot of boundaries early on in the Navy And it still seems like as a flight school owner. I have I do everything.
I can't introduce diversity here but we still have Ten white males, to one white girl and you know it's just it's still an it's an unfair battle it feels like for females that want to get into aviation and while I talked to a few Wally has got two daughters that are going to be professional pilots. What do you recommend for all of us aviators to do to try and help both boys and girls, men and women to introduce get them introduced aviation well first of all I would like to say you know the idea that white males are the enemy is a false one. I had so many champions that Fit that category and just like a bad attitude can appear in anybody no matter their shape or form it just happened to be that you know I was. I think was the only female in the first four squadrons that I was in so About one female pilot came through Corpus Christi flight training in the T-2’s and A-4’s a year and I think as the numbers increase. You know the attitudes will dismantle a little bit. I know that flying right now Whenever my husband. And I we just flew are piper malibu up to Alaska and back and even when I was one landing and they would park me. They would see that I was one that just landed in Sitka for example Sitka, Alaska. They always go to my husband to ask how much fuel he wants. And when he's headed out again. I always just kind of shake my head and go on into drink or something. I think I’m not going to argue about that but it does get frustrating The one thing I would say is ladies have patients but Draw your line. You know there as long as we know our stuff and quite frankly you do have to know what your rights are to have them so be smart about it and gentlemen Just like Wally was there to help. Navigate his daughters through this this Aviation world if the gentleman in aviation would come alongside not be just a mentor but be sponsor so that when they're not in the room when they're not in the hangar There's still either nice things said or not the not nice things are just gentlemen. Being gentlemen would take care a lot of that problems. Ladies have to remain ladies if we want men to act like men but It's I feel like it's just one of those things that the recruitment of stem students has unwittingly narrowed out quite a bit of the female population because women aren’t traditionally drawn to stem studies. And so that makes them think. Well then I’m out of that aviation opportunity and realizing that really arts so a in steam may stem and make it steam and helping the ladies and gentlemen but especially ladies know that it. You don't have to study aviation or math or science to be a pilot and to be a successful you know whether it's for your own enjoyment in GA flying or on through professional. You talked about some of the work. You're doing around this to try and help the aviation community in one thought that I would what made me become an aviator was a neighbor. Who took time to go to Starbucks and sit down and have that two-hour long conversation and answered the same questions that here. He had been asked thousands of times. Probably I’d love to have that conversation today. And I’ll do it over and over and over again to be able to try and pay that forward. It's almost like if we could just have a one eight hundred number for people to call in and have that conversation it would change many people's lives because there really is this oddity that if you don't know where to start it's really hard to start but once you start we all jump in and help anyone be successful. So there's something to that starting mechanism that if we could fix it open our doors invite more people have those conversations. I think we could. We could change. The future of aviation together as corny as that may sound. That myself I agree and one of the things that I put on my website. Captainshults.com is a drop-down menu with some Ideas of where to go for scholarships for a free ride and free ground school and first lesson. Free and I’ll be expanding on those as we flesh them out but there's no reason for somebody to not at least get introduced to it to know whether it interests them or not the ninety-nines. The women in aviation are just three to start with. But there's there are a number and the board that I’m on we're working on making that list very easy to find and hopefully I’ll have that on my website soon. Just a page of links to go to you and hopefully everyone listened to the show somewhat soon but there is a girls aviation day. I believe it's July twenty ninth At Ellington field here in town and there's all kinds of opportunities for boys and girls. It's a woman in aviation sponsored event but boys and girls are all welcome to come to that event and be introduced aviation hopefully not for the first time but There's a museum. There are all kinds of good stuff down there. So if you're listening to this show and that hasn't happened go to that event but look at look at women in aviation dot com or dot org. I believe and you can find all kinds of. It's all over the country to get involved with aviation. Well Tammie Jo. It's been a fun time talking to you. Anything to wrap up with you. You mentioned your website Captainshults.com. The book is nerves of steel anywhere. You buy your books anything else.
You want to close with Tammie Jo. Oh I would like to give a nod to the air race classic by the ninety-nines. They did a derby style this year. Which is the first time they have ever done that. Which meant you map out your own. Five legs close by grab some friends and piper aircraft was generous and sponsored. Our team Elise Wheellock. Who is their demo pilot ronin archer up and we did Olga custodia was on the team as well and we did a route locally. It was so much fun. Really dust off your cobwebs on how to use your either Foreflight, Garmin pilot or whatever you're using on your iPad and. I don't think I’ve done math so much math in the last thirty years what I did in that five. Legs no dispatcher on that trip. I'm assuming in it. Looks like a lot of fun. The pictures were great of you. And I assume that archer cockpit was just a little bit smaller than Southwest cockpit. Got some funny comments about that really. Carry all three of you. It's not a speed breaks it’s a navigational race. Right arches got pretty good usable load. It'll have three adults just fine. Wally, anything to close, no. Tammie thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed getting to talk to you. Get to meet you just a little bit and hopefully we can do this some more. That would be fun, I feel like we just got started. WE have to talk in Aztec, New Mexico next time. We'll do that. We'll come up there and see you my twin as always fly safe and stay behind the prop.
Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This show is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!