Several weeks ago we touched on emergencies in a prior episode. But this week we decided to dig a little deeper and share some more stories. We'll give you a few tools to add to your tool belt that just may come in handy someday. Wally shares a compelling story of a recent airline flight he had that required him to declare an emergency, and Bobby brings up the classic "field vs. road" debate. Lots of good stuff to talk about in this week's all new episode of Behind The Prop!
Emergencies come in so many shapes and sizes that it's impossible to prepare for them all. From sick passengers to engine difficulties. From flight control issues to smoke in the cockpit. There's a million different situations that could pop up that require your immediate attention. But with a ton of practice, a cool head, and the proper checklist in hand... hopefully you'll have what it takes when it's all on the line. This week the guys give us some best practices so when you're facing the ultimate test one day, you have everything you need to get your airplane on the ground safely!
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What's up Wally. Bobby how are you, fantastic. We continue to get asked a number of questions as it relate so emergencies what to do an emergency and while we did a show Kind of a potpourri of emergency type topics a few weeks back. We wanted to re address number of things that keep coming up in conversation. And I think people I don't know people assume or wonder but they keep asking us when we when was less than we declared an emergency. I have yet to declare an emergency. When was the last time you declared emergency Wally. Well it's funny or I won't say funny but it's interesting that you ask that because it was probably about three weeks ago and I'll tell a little story take about two or three minutes to tell what happened. I was flying an airline flight. And we were going in the Los Angeles and Los Angeles busy airport Busy airspace southern California. A lot going on there and it was a very uneventful flight. In fact the first officer and I were talking about. How after we landed and kind of debriefed everything we were talking about. How one of the more uneventful flights that we've ever had the seat belt sign was off pretty much the entire flight so it was a very smooth light Just nothing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary until about the last four minutes of the flight We were on about a twenty-mile final for runway two five left at lax and I I don't know. What altitude we were at. But we were below ten thousand feet. We are low enough to where the sterile cockpit light was on which means we're in sterile cockpit light and I mean we're in sterile cockpit so no-one necessary conversations and even from the flight attendants they know not to bother us and unless it’s an. Emergency well The phone rang and The first officer was flying. So I was the what we call the monitoring pilot and They said we had a customer in the back. That was Having a medical emergency and they said but He seemed to be okay at this point. Seem to be getting better but um to they just want to let us know that we did have a medical situation going on in the back and when. Maybe we're not all familiar but you say sterile cockpit that assume you're close to landing. How many when you got that phone call and you hear this from someone telling you this information. Are you twelve minutes. Twenty minutes three. How far off are you from touching down. Yeah well in. In this case we were probably about five six minutes from touching down. I would say We put on the sterile cockpit light below ten thousand so You know a couple of things happen at ten thousand feet. We absolutely have to be below. Two hundred fifty knots airspeed and You know we get the sterile cockpit light on but in this case we you know and when I brief the flight attendants I say. Look if it's an emergency call us and they understand that. So when I got the call I knew something was up. They weren't just calling to see You know What gate were are going into or anything like that But anyway so they said that we they. We had a man back there as having a You know we'll get in all the details. What was going on but He was you know a medical emergency. And so I immediately We're talking to so cal. Approach believe and I told them We need Ems to meet the airplane at the gate. And I explained a little bit about what's going on told them that I. It was a male in the approximate age. And that was the end of it. Or so I thought and then about a minute later at this point now or maybe four minutes from touching down They call back again and said the guy had taken a turn for the worse and So at this point. I got on the radio to ATC. And I said We're now declaring an emergency. The guy has gotten worse and the controller Said well sir. Don't worry about the emergency. We already declared emergency for you. And at this point. They changed our runway to the Closer runway to the terminal and to cleared us to land on runway two five right which is unusual to two five right.
Usually the runway used for taking off in los Angeles. You land on two five left But anyway we are clear to land two five right and we're cleared by tower. We're cleared right into the gate. It was I. I don't know what could have been done to make us get to the gate any quicker. Ems as there. Got the guy off. And I don't. I don't know what happened with them but You know prayers and everything how to the young man who was having the issue. But what I’m saying is we have this declaration of an emergency in our in our toolbox as pilots and Yeah was there paperwork involved. I have to submit some paperwork. Yeah I did. I mean it's all electronic. It's no big deal. It took me about five minutes out of my day to submit this So it's it was just very made me feel really good to know. If I’m in the back of an airplane. I have a medical emergency And I’m the one having the situation That that help us close and you can get help. So don't We don't want everybody to go out and all a sudden have a whole slew of Emergencies being declared the next Few days after this podcast gets released but it is something available to us and you know again in our situation to the ATC actually declared the emergency. I didn't use that phrase declaring an emergency until the second time around and at that point the controller said while. I've already done that for you. We'll have some ATC people in here shortly as well and we'll ask that question to them to obviously that's probably a tool in their toolbox and they use it when they see fit Probably the same scenario where it's not going to be too terribly painful for them and they know that you're going to get the expediting that you need to get thinking care of Did you did you sense on the first phone call. I think I hear this a lot and maybe your sense of the moment will help when something starts to go wrong. There might be this ego thing that kicks in where I don't want to declaring an emergency. I want to fight through it. I want to I want to figure this problem out of want to diagnose it myself and I think people lose time in those circumstances did you sense when they call the first time that it was going to be here. Did you since We've had sick passengers in the past was something in her voice or their voice that might have indicated you that it was going to get worse no in fact I was just the opposite Basically what I sensed in their voice was. We had this situation but we pretty much got an taken care of but we just want to let you know that this this is what happened in the back yard and so I got the feeling that oh well you know everything. Everything is ok. But at that point I just said you know we're going to have. Ems meet the airplane and So I I kind of thought is being a little bit more proactive by having Ems Meet the airplane. We do have a service that we can Where we can call in. And via vhf or satcom we can talk to medical doctors But at this point at five thousand feet on final only two five left at. Los Angeles was not the appropriate time to do that. So we just didn't have time to take care of that if you've been flying long at all And you're listening to this show you've got to be a pilot or an enthusiast to some level you've probably had that moment where your heart has skipped the beat and or your stomach's kind of got up in your throat a little bit Was within the last couple of months that we took off. I was flying with another person. Took off turned towards are heading was a right-hand turn and I just heard clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk and it got my attention a lot. It sounded as if a flight control was loose like a flap or aileron flapping in the winds right.
Took me the better part of thirty seconds to realize that that other person had left their seat belt out the door and it was the seat belt banging off the side of the fuselage which wasn't making very happy but not necessarily an emergency. But something that you would want to resolve fairly quickly But in that moment that anxiety that came across me my mind went into to react mode. Like what am I going to do should you know. Would I declare an emergency. How declares an emergency. There wasn't anyone in the tower at that time. And I don't I don't know if we practice this enough right. Not necessarily the emergency Because we've all practiced for check rides and those sorts of things. I think that's one segment of it but it's really. What am I going to do in not that one engine failure the fire example or whatever that might be all these other things that can happen for medical emergencies to A seatbelt out the door. I think the proposal I’ll open the door and pull it back in. I was like no. You will not do that. But that doesn't sound like the best course of action. Maybe the one that saves us the most embarrassment if we could do it but boy that doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense so I think it. I think to me. All of us is pilots should be working on ways to practice and think through the scenarios There's probably a lot less likely emergency scenario that we're going to have that. Doesn't that isn't in a checklist by Cessna right. And what are we really trying to accomplish by declaring an emergency. What did you hope declaring that emergency on the second call would accomplish for you. Well a couple of things First of all expedition in other words they would expedite our arrival Into an and what I was getting at is Before I even Finished my breath declaring an emergency. I was going to ask for runway two five right Rather than to five left in Before I could even catch my breath in and asked that they just cleared us two to five right or they asked us. Actually they said. Would you prefer two five right because there's certain amount of you know things we have to do with localizer frequencies and everything well. We're a visual. We could see the airport. We really didn't need to do anything to land on the inboard runway but Yeah at that point. I just you know. It's I wanted to say. Look you need to get people out of our way because we need to get in. Not only do we need to get on the ground in a hurry But we need to get to the gate in a hurry. We need to get this young man. Medical attention in a hurry You know most of the time we're thinking of. Let's get the airplane on the ground and once we're on the ground everything is good because usually when we're talking about emergencies where thinking about a systems problem or something wrong with the airplane. The airplane is something is broken. let's get it on the ground and now we can stop and catch our breath but you know in a medical emergency not only. Do you want to get the airplane on the ground. But you got to get to where you can get the help to the the sick person yet. So I as. I think there are a lot of the other types of emergencies happen systems related. Or not you know. How many times did we hear about fuel incidents the create really bad situations. Because someone wouldn't I. I don't know if it's not if it's the right phrase I’ve but it's they didn't declare the emergency they just said. Hey I’m low on fuel. I've I’ve watched air disasters enough. On the Smithsonian channel that many of a big crash could be avoided if they would have just declared how terrible of a situation they really in right I'm sure you've heard that and trained for that in your own world but It's declaring so that you get the expedition you get the help you need you. Clear people out of your way I think I’ve watched the show. Where they put them in a holding pattern because they acted like it was a problem but they didn't act like it was as big of a problem as it really was right And had they done that they would have got. Those helps the help that they might have needed in that circumstance. Yeah go ahead. I was going to say the other aspect of an emergency is you. Don't just have to physically use your mouth and key the mike and use those phrases. There are ways of declaring emergency. And we all have well most of us have a transponder and that works just as well You know the big emergency that we deal with usually small general aviation airplanes are the one that we simulate for. The most part is an engine failure. You know that's the big deal. That is the big deal on a commercial and on a private check ride. That's something where we are required to test And we simulated engine failure. Well most of these airplanes In our or most flights schools. I should say Teach students ABC airspeed best. Place to land and checklist. I would say ninety-nine-point nine percent of.
My applicants are really good about the airspeed. As soon as you know we do a simulated engine failure. They'll say they'll say pitch for best airspeed and I. I would like to that one step farther and I would. I would say let's instead of saying let's pitch best airspeed. Let's trim for best airspeed because what happens is let's say the best glide speed is in. This airplane is eighty knots. Let's say well they'll pitch for it but then the one there eye go out the window looking for a place to land. Maybe they're forgetting and We're lowering the nose. And lo and behold not doing eighty knots anymore. So I would say rather say pitch for best airspeed trim best airspeed and just so. We're clear and everybody that's listening. Wants to challenge this. We're looking at a POH. right now of a Cessna S model and it doesn't say pitch and just as airspeed right so right. Yes it's the correct nomenclature. The airspeed should be best glide. But I do think the trim will make it much easier on everybody out there for shah And then you know then we look for a place to land and this takes sometimes takes a lot of time for people to come up with a place to land so You know yeah you need to find an open area whether it be a field or a road. And that's a discussion for another day. Some people are going to say stay away from roads. Some people would say well. Hey it's a nice hard surface There are some pitfalls with landing on a road but again. That's an argument for another day. But then when we get to the checklist for the most part The checklist There's really for most of these airplanes two checklists that. You're going to have to deal with the first checklist. Is essentially sort of going to be a troubleshooting checklist. And the intent of this checklist is to get. The engine started again and lo and Behold most of the items on this checklist involved fuel You know you're going to you're going to Put the mixture in fuel selector carburetor. Heat if you're in a carburetor airplane that's a fuel thing to make because whereas the ice forming and the fuel if you're an airplane has a fuel pump whether be carburetor or not probably the fuel pump is going to come on so probably the first several items on this. This checklist is going to involve fuel And then of course make sure your mags are on both and add a little spark to it and try to get the engine going again. Okay so we're we may or may not get the engine going if we get the engine going all right least. We have a lot little breathing room you may. There may still be a problem in may be that you were on the left fuel tank and you ran out of fuel but you got plenty of fuel on the right fuel tank may be scary moment. Things may be okay at this point but if the if the engine does not come back. You're probably going to have some sort of a checklist that involves a forced landing okay so Independent on on the airplane. It may have you talks about flaps at talks about Turning things off Opening doors opening doors and that sort of thing at the end of the day most of these checklists never ever talk about communicating with anybody. Telling somebody we're about to put this airplane down in a cotton field. That's out in the middle of nowhere and You know I. I always tell. Tell me students or applicants that good chance that you're going to this is going to be a crash landing you may survive it and hopefully you will survive it but there's a good chance that you will be injured and suppose you're knocks knocked unconscious and your bleeding. You survived the crash. But you're conscious and you're bleeding and it's twenty-four hours before help comes that's maybe not an ideal situation so The question I have is why on these checklists is squawking seventy-seven hundred or talking. Atc I think most people had this scenario happened and they had flight following. I would like to think that they would key the mike until atc. Hey we just had an engine failure. We're going down in field I think I would think most of us would say that but In a situation where you don't have flight following how about squawking seventy-seven hundred. That's going to get some people's attention for sure. Yeah and my saying to do something. That's not on a checklist. I I guess. I am well and we. We questioned before we started recording like why. Why aren't these items on these checklists. Maybe radios weren’t required when these check lists were written. Yeah well I would think there's a lot of planes. They were sold from the factory without radios that they didn't think to communicate necessarily that'd be transponder or over the airways But that's an assumption.
But it is interesting that you know. The communicate part And the squawking. Part aren't on any of these checklists. And I would think we would want to do that sooner than later. We incorporated that into our flow of some sort we would. We would think that there's all kinds of things that are going wrong. Losing power would be one of those things if we Don't have an alternator turning anymore we're going to and we don't have a strong battery that could that could be a problem. So we'd want that seventy-seven hundred to get in there fairly quickly so that someone would see where we're at and they could get to us quicker If I have an ELT I can flip on. That might make a lot of sense. If I know I’m going to have a force landing And then talking to somebody if you don't know who to talk to If I didn't know who to talk to Wally what should I do. One twenty-one point five one twenty-one point five and as we're sitting here bobby I I think most people are I've got an app on my phone. Call flight radar twenty-four And it's flight aware type app but This will let me track airplanes using ADSB But I have my flight radar. Twenty-four set up so that I get text messages just to show you what an airplane geek. I am But I get text messages. When an airplane squawk seventy-six hundred or seventy-seven hundred worldwide and. I am just sitting here right now. One hour ago I won't give the call sign but a Cirrus. Sr twenty-two Squawk seventy-six hundred. And I can look go on and and see where. The last known place of this airplane was At a one hour ago a GTwelve whatever that is this is in a foreign country because the registration is not an N number squawk seventy-seven hundred general emergency. Here's anyway. I won't go through it but I’ve I’m sitting here I’ve got Multiple alerts airplanes squawking. Seventy it's mostly seventy-six hundred But a few seventy-seven hundred and You know some of them. Here's a BE thirty-six squawk seventy-six hundred on Friday So it happens. It happens quite a bit. And so I find this interesting when you know when I when especially seventy-seven hundred. I'll usually pull it up and see where the airplane is. And if Don't have a whole lot to do. I'll do some research and try to figure out what happened to the airplane. Yeah I think the Squawking is the one that I take away from this conversation squawking sooner than later I don't think I would go against anything. That's in the POH. But I think I would definitely be adding seventy-seven hundred or communicating with someone so that I can be found and again referencing. That engine failure. But there's a lot of things that we should be practicing you know. What are we going to do if we have. If we're in a small single GA aircraft that has a medical emergency what are we going to do.
The thought processes. You're probably going to want to help. Get that person somewhere. Depending on what their mercy is. But you're not going to go to the first untowered airport probably because you're not going to do your whole lot of good then again. That might be right next to the hospital. And you're aware of that. But you should think through those sorts of things and I think you think what we should do as pilots to stay up with our currency and proficiency is actually practice some of these things you know the the practicing the engine failure for a check ride is one. We've all done many many times. But what about the other stuff. Though the more reality type things left a fuel cap off the plane. And I ran out of fuel on the left side. How are we going to deal with that. How we solve that problem. And what are we going to do. We at the land in a field like that. What if I suck all the gas out of the airplane. If I got bad gas I mean that's more of an engine failure reality than the engine actually quitting completely We talk through. Magnetos does and doing you know. Having the software magneto problem in-flight might be as simple switching. It from left to both or right instead of both. That might completely make the engine runs smooth. Is that an emergency. Should I declare it. I think I probably would in a lot of situations And I know we've talked about that one of the best. But I think we need to practice that and I think we need to have a flow and a checklist that we use the probably includes a seventy-seven hundred and then talking to someone sooner than later as well. Yeah and you know. I it if you do Declare an emergency or squawk seventy-seven hundred. You're not going to get a bill in the mail from the FAA You're not. I mean that's what your tax dollars go to already now. You may get a call from the FAA the FISDO and they may just want to know what happened and just tell them what happened I and they're doing this for data collection in in. Who knows maybe it helps other pilots. You know they can publish what happened. Hey on this date. This is what happened. This is what the how they handled the situation. Maybe it wasn't the most ideal way to handle it but maybe a was so You don't be afraid of that. That phone call if you do get it or they. They ask for further clarifications You know in in my situation. I had to submit a report about The emergency and you know. I just explained what happened and At the end they asked. They do. Ask for suggestions. Do you have any suggestion you know. Is there any way that we can make this this situation better next time and I didn't I didn't have any suggestions and You know. I got an email back within. I don't know twenty-four hours saying that All my information had been reviewed and accepted and basically that was the end of it for me. Yeah we get a lot of follow ups here We've had we've declared emergencies. We've had seventy-six hundred squawked and almost always the FAA does up in. it's normally one quick phone call And we're done.
It's not something to be overly concerned about it's just Like you said them doing data collection them trying to help other pilots as it relates to emergencies I don't think it's going to be if you have to declare one or if you're involved in one but when you're going to be involved in one so By all means practice work with your safety pilots as he fly around your friends as you're building time they'll just practice the same one Practice some other scenarios another situations and how you handle them because I I think it's going to surprise all of us when it does come And it it's going to catch us off guard we're going to have to learn to react to it Any thoughts on that. Yeah I think there's just a lot of things that you can have You can make some decisions before you even This happens. I mean we're on a coastal community down here. We live We're right on the gulf of Mexico. So you know he here's a scenario. Let's say you're flying along the coast You know you out to. The left is the gulf of Mexico and into the right is a beach and you have an engine failure or are you going to put the airplane you can put on the beach you going to put it just barely in the water. You're going to put it in the water. What kind of airplane when yeah well. That's good I. That's a good point. That's a good point. So and as a minor am I renting. I'm joking exactly. So you know. And I you know I mentioned this earlier. I have the discussion with people a lot. What do you what do you do you like a field day. Or do you like a road and There's a couple of different schools of thought out there I know what I would like to do. will ideally. I'd like to find an abandoned runway somewhere. If that's not an option. I think I know what I want to do. I think I was taught a few things during my training. And you should talk to your instructors. What which is better water. If I’ve fixed gears water trees or a muddy field better right. I mean you got to think about energy and how we're going to displace this energy though. I want to be upside down to. I want to be upright and right to. There's a lot of reasons why you might pick some trees instead of buildings that you might be trapped and have to make that decision one day. Thank through that. Talk through that with somebody The road situations one. That gets a lot of debate. But I can. I can almost predict that. I'm going to pick a road over a lot of other circumstances. Especially if I know that power lines are running beside that road and not across that road right It's just it's going to be a pretty good outcome. Is my guess if you choose with traffic or there is no traffic at all so it thinks it is practice. It's talk through it. I think it's doing everything you can to be as prepared as you can win. The wind is they comes because these days likely going to come for all of us where we have to react to something that is an emergency declare that emergency and get the help that we need for sure. One it thinks about is in a retractable gear airplane. Let's say two of the three landing gear. Come down you going to land with two gears down and one up or you're going to pull the gear up and land with all of them up. I'm probably going to with them up. See I’m going to take what it can get I’d land with two down so it means it's two different and they're both right. Neither one of them is wrong. But I’ve already made that decision. So that's what I’m going to do and so in the time of stress. I really don't have to think about that now. Can it change my mind can maybe circumstances dictate changing my mind. Yeah absolutely maybe off the air but two wheels down over a sandy beach near water. What are you going to do. That's probably going to change things but with that we'll wrap it up this kind of been the follow up to some emergency stuff. We're not perfect. We don't have all the right answers but we definitely think you should put some thought and practice into these scenarios as well as always thanks for listening to the show and stay behind the prop.
Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This show is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!