Behind the Prop

E034 - LIVE with 3 DPE's!

Episode Summary

This week we hosted a LIVE panel discussion with 3 local DPE's (Pat Brown, Wanda Collins, and of course our very own Wally Mulhearn). We took listener questions on everything from how to calm the nerves on checkride day, to the scariest thing they've witnessed during a checkride!

Episode Notes

If you're going to be ready for a checkride soon, check out our amazing local DPE's here:

Wally Mulhearn -

Wanda Collins -

Pat Brown -


Episode Transcription

All right I got to remember what I said here. Clear Prop, welcome to a live addition of behind the proper preaching and flight. School owner and licensed pilot bobby doss and his co-host designated pilot. Examiner and major airline captain. Mister Wally Mulhearn. Give it up for a live addition of Behind the Prop. Thank you thank you. what's up Wally. Hey bobby how are you. We start every show that way. Good to see. We're going to invite our guests in Mrs. Wanda Collins. Close friend of mine. And that Designated Pilot Examiner and United Captain and Pat Brown. Another friend of mine and are you can fly ambassador from the AOPA. They're going to join us. We're going to answer your questions so Wally we do this every week weekend. Week in Week out. y'all to have a seat if you want. I think we have. We've had pat on the show. This is Wanda first of many appearances. Hopefully what do people ask you about the show. What do people when you meet people. You're talking to applicants. What do they ask you about the show it. It's funny now. That I were that we're doing this show. It's not really unusual for me to walk into a check ride in somebody say oh. You're the podcast guy. It was never intended to. I don't know what we had in mind when we started it. I don't know what I had in mind but it has taken off. I think it's been really good. The comments have been nothing but positive. We get a lot of suggestions of things. People want to know A and as an examiner. I thought people would want to know how to pass a check ride. But that's not what they're asking. They're asking how to more safely fly an airplane. And that's exactly what we wanted because this is not how to pass a check ride. This is how do safely fly an airplane. That's right and I think that safety is the big part of it you know. I thought we thought we would have one hundred listeners. maybe it's definitely grown. Well beyond that and it's exciting every day that we know people are listening in probably learning a little bit something that our guests are passing along. I just get the play color all the time with Wally answering everyone's questions so with that. Let's ask some questions of these designated pilot examiners. And if you'll start thinking of your questions I’ll come see them. I want to ask Pat a question. Pat you on the show. You do many webinars and podcasts and those sorts of things. What would be over sounding question that you get on a regular basis from from people on your webinars and podcasts. Oh so many of them. I’m. I'm not I’m not really sure When they find out a DPE oftentimes they'll they'll they'll go into those kinds of things they'll ask You know what typically goes wrong going to check right. It's basically lack of preparation. It really is that simple as lack of preparation. You don't come with all the paperwork the way it's supposed to be the things aren't signed. Logbooks aren't tabbed. That kind of stuff. They want to know what questions I’m going to ask. I'm not going to tell them that. We did a show on that there is an this is an open book test. There's something called the ACS right you know. All the questions that are going to be asked could be asked right there in the ACS. Wanda you've given. I'm going to assume almost five hundred or more check rides at this point. And who is your best applicant of all time. Definitely you Bobby. Wanda’s given me a checkride, Wally’s. given me a checkride. I'm not just retake a check right pat so you can give me one. But I took my instrument with Wally. And I took my commercial multi. Engine commercial with MS Wanda and They were both gracious to me on. Those rides wanted to you. This is your first broadcast. I believe but Wanda has actually been on. Good morning America many other tv shows. She's quite famous in the media. But she Won't tell you that. How what were you doing in flying thirty years ago I was a student pilot and Probably working on all my ratings thirty years so she was just like all of us at one point as well actually. I was an instructor thirty years ago. Thirty years ago she was instructor. I'm trying to get my instructor certificate. But it's taking longer than I wanted it to were you and acrobatic pilot yes I did acrobatics and competition and airshows is so if you really want something interesting go search for Wanda Collins acrobatics and see what videos you can find on the internet. There's there's some pretty good stuff out there. Let's have y'all ask questions who has a question for the DPE’s come on there we go here. We go tony Bradford and I’m just wondering what is the difference

Is there a big difference between a check ride in a biannual review when you come up with your biannual review. Yeah there is first of all you cannot. You can't fail biennial review or flight review. You can't fail it. You can fail to pass it. But it's it's not a failure so if someone comes in to do their flight review and it in wolf another difference is first of all a CFI you can give a flight review where a designated examiner has to do a check ride so a flight review. A CFI can give you a flight review and you know if the CFI deems that after spending half a day with you that you're not ready to go. Fly your family around you simply. Do not get the endorsement you. There's no failure of it if that makes sense where with a with a check ride. Yeah you can. If you do not meet the standard you'll get a notice disapproval. So that's and but but the main thing is a CFI can do the flight review and an examiner. Because you know in Houston. I don't know how many CFI’s we have in Houston but hundreds. Maybe maybe maybe a thousand. I don't know there. There are hundreds of is in the Houston area. I think there's about twelve DPEs not nine. We've got nine Houston all right. Who's got another question all right. We'll start up here. So I don't think so many steps. Yeah so that brings up a good point. What's the best way to schedule. The DPE because I tell you about a year and a half ago before this whole thing started. It was like winning the lottery. I was sending everybody. And I’ve communicated with all of you guys. Yeah it's it's He's still waiting by the way. I don't know I don't know if it's fair to say there's a shortage of examiners. I know everybody. We're basically independent contractors. We do not work for the FAA we so we all schedule our own way. I know what my policy is. My policy is. I don't schedule more than about two weeks out. And the reason being is if I got us check ride scheduled today. If let's say I’ve scheduled six weeks out. Let's say I’ve scheduled through the end of June. And if I have a check ride today with you and it's a bad weather day. I don't think it's fair to you to say well. I can get you in maybe July eighth. You're going to have to wait another seven weeks so for that reason. My philosophy is not scheduled more than about two weeks out so that way. If we do get weathered out. I could say well. You know I can get you in June first, but I’ll pass the mic and let let these guys embellish on that. I I do a little bit differently. I'll go a little bit further out than that. But I typically leave two or three days a week open On any given week for the same reason I’ve got. I think four check ride schedule next week but I think we're going to have a rain out for three or four those days next week. So what are we going to do. Got to reschedule them so again like Wally. It's not fair to make you wait another six or eight weeks for ride but you're right. There's a shortage and you know we're trying to address that but there's only so much we can do for me. The best way to schedule with me is to shoot me a text message with your name and your FTN number and a little bit about yourself like are you ready to go or what date are you hoping for If you can come to me or not. Or if I need to go to you What kind of plane and just stuff like that. Because if you don't give me information about yourself like if you're flexible If you can go any day or what. It's just too hard for me to try to figure out like how to fit you in text messages or best for me because I have a like a. There's a log of what was said and so that's helpful. I would say the more information you can give on that initial contact the better I. It's not unusual for. I'll get a text message and say. Hey Wally I’m looking for a check ride next week. Can you do it. And I say actually you know Tuesday afternoon just opened up. Yeah I’m available. What are we looking for. He says well. I'm in Seattle Washington. And I’m going to take my written on next Thursday and if I pass I’ll be ready to go on Monday. Well wait a minute. I'm in. Houston I’m not. I'm not going to Seattle so as Wanda said to set the more you can give us. Personally I prefer email for the for the same reason you said Wanda. It's easy it's easy to track. And there's there's a written record of it. But typically if I get a text I’ll refer them to my website And I know you've got one too Wally they right now. Do you Wanda? Plug yours, mines a hard one, Mine's just by name as well if you google my name Wanda Collins. It'll pop up the website so and usually you end up having to get a hold of me anyway just to figure it out. So this is probably for the entire panel. I'm sure you've seen quite a few numbers of applicants. Somebody mentioned earlier. It should be more about training safe pilots rather than passing check rides. So my question is from the applicants that you've seen are there areas of rather knowledge or practical that you see applicants consistently coming up short That you just feel would make better pilots. I I feel that systems. Knowledge is usually not the greatest and we talked about this on previous episodes And I think people coming up today are are just victims of their environment. And what I mean by that is you can safely drive a car for a long time without ever opening the hood. You really can and you could make the argument about an airplane. Maybe you could do that but not maybe not so much. It's when you get into situations where things aren't going right. Having that systems knowledge really comes into play and we're required to test it we're required to ask about three to ask about three different systems on an airplane and so You know in a one seventy-two. There's not a whole lot of system so it's not that hard to get in and kind of understand a little bit of what's going on. You know two cylinders per spark plug there. I mean that's very basic concept two magnetos how many magnetos power each spark plug that kind of stuff But I would say. I would say that I would say systems knowledge. But I’ll pass it onto these guys. Systems is one but weather is another. You don't have to be a meteorologist but having a good basic understanding of highs and lows and frontal boundaries and things like that where we're supposed to test that too and and one that's fairly new is is really just a lack of understanding of the onboard weather products that we have ADSB in, XM, it's in the ACS. We're supposed to ask about that stuff yet. Almost every time. I ask a question about that as a deer in headlights. Look one of the areas that I find. A lot of weakness is When they're a student is doing hood work Where you're making Put the hood on and then turned to headings and climb and descend those students. They're usually doing really good but they're banking the bank angles about twenty-to-thirty-degree bank in its way over the standard rate turn and But they're the rolling out on the heading. They're doing everything they're supposed to do. But they're just banking way too steep. So I usually Ask them like. Hey what's the standard rate turn and so most students don't understand the concept of a standard rate turn and I try to Get him to understand. Look if you're in. The clouds are in bad visibility as a non-instrument rated pilot you’re in an emergency situation. And so you should bank as little as possible so there's that and then the other thing that's there tend to be really weak on is on their short field landings. There don't understand the concept of needing to come in a little bit slower when they're landing on a short runway just so that they don't have so much energy to carry them down the runway so those are two areas that I think they could work on. Think Wally and I joke about this on of our shows where we all land on four thousand plus foot runway. We don't know what landing on a nine-hundred-foot runway with the fifty foot. Obstacle really is like land at Wanda’s house and you'll find out exactly what that's really like. Nick, You have a question. Hopefully it's okay. 

The voice of the podcast question. Pat, I had my private check with you. We were just talking about it. I found myself the night before surprisingly really nervous. And then that morning. I was even more nervous. You were very disarming when we met and stuff and of course it kind of just took off from there. But I wonder if you have any stories of really nervous students that you guys have seen and maybe some things that you do to calm down a little bit. Yeah I would say. Most people are nervous It's a big day. It is a really big day for us. It's another day at the office but for the applicant. I mean it it's a big day I Very I remember. Bits and pieces of my check ride mind check rides longtime ago so I have slept a lot between then and now so but I do. I do remember some things. I remember some of the things I said I can remember on a check. Ride the this is with the FAA. This is actually a part one thirty-five check ride. The the faa examiner. Looked at me and said okay. You did a really good job. I'm going to ask you one more question and if you know it we're going to go fly if you don't know we'll have to do some more and my anxiety level went through the word he says. I'm going to say a word and I want you to tell me everything you know about that word and and I said okay. He said skate. Tana and I said say that again. He said skate tana and I. I didn't know what to say. I mean I had nothing. I had nothing I saw. It starts with an S. Yeah yeah and I’m going. I don't even skate Tana is. It's an acronym for for what the FAA was going to do in case the Russians attack. They were going to shut down all the VOR’s and basically it was security. I think the for security. What's skate tana okay. But anyway and I am just sitting there just freaking out and then he just busted out laughing. He said oh. Let's go fly so that that that broke the I have had. I've had people on check rides. Get sick on check rides. I carry sick sacks and have used them and we continued one one young man. I mean he got really sick and he filled up a bag and may have gotten dropped out of the window or may not know what really happened to it. But I said we need to go back and discontinued so now. I'm good now okay. So we went and did some more maneuvers. And then we're back in the pattern. We're doing our landings and last landing soft field landing to a full stop. We're coming in and at about thousand feet. He just says you got to take it. And I took the airplane and He used another sick sack. That's why you always have more than one. And I so. I flew the airplane down the runway at about eight hundred feet. And I see his CFI down there looking. He's probably thinking. Oh my gosh what is going on. And then I I said to. The guy said we've got one more we we got one more. He goes all right. I'm good now. I can do it so we landed. And he said he says. Can this be like Vegas. What happens in the airplane displays an airplane. I said absolutely absolutely. I am not telling anybody so I go in the room. I'm processing paperwork than his his. CFI comes in. He goes well. I heard you got sick. I thought I thought we were going to keep that quiet. But anyway. But it’ll let these guys talk now you I mean yeah. They're nervous sometimes. It's palpable but Basically I just tell them look. I've been on your side of the table. Not like these guys because these guys have to do it every several months and there have been on that side of the table maybe twelve times in my life. I remember what it was like. Most recently three or four years ago when I got my seaplane rating and even though I knew the examiner to friend of mine as soon as he puts on the FAA hat. It's like oh my god here. We go. But I I tell them look. You're not going to have a perfect oral. And you're not going to have a perfect check ride but that's not the standard. The book says that you can't consistently exceed the standards. It doesn't say that you can't exceed the standards so you know just try to relax. A little bit realized that we're not looking for perfection. We're really not. We're just looking for you to be safe and that goes really any check ride. I see people every day. They're really really nervous. And I tried just small talk with them for ten or fifteen minutes to You know get them to loosen up a little bit and then in the airplane They usually will do something right away. 

Like oh forget to pull the chalks or something. Hopefully I don't miss it but usually something that works for me as I’ll tell him something that I actually did on one of my check rides which I forgot to untie the tail of the plane and the examiner just screamed at me. It was I was waiting on the examiner show up To help me push plane back. So I could move. Unhook it because it was a multi-engine but anyway it helps them. Just see that it happens. And that the examiners. We're on your side you know we want you to pass And so things are going to happen so I usually just help him out a little bit by telling them something that happened to me. I got a question that just came to me. And y'all raise your hands after this one. If you have a question and I’ll come to you but When I was a student pilot and I flew with a few different. Cfi's I always would ask them. What was the scariest moment for you as a CFI with. What's the one time you were really really concerned. Meaning student puts you in a bad situation. Surely on check rides. You guys have senior moments of uncertainty in doubt once you share one of those moments with us not too long ago I actually thought we were going to crash which is really bad, but some airports have trees of close to the runway anyway. We hit a severe downdraft and I wasn't sure the applicant was going to react quick enough so I had to completely take over and make sure we didn't Hit and we were sinking really fast but the things happen quite often to with me. Come to mind I I did take an airplane on on landing one time it was a pretty significant crosswind. And I believe if I had not we would've gone off and the grass and I remember coming in and telling the flight school owner I so I got good. That was my plane. I wasn't going to say that. As I got good news and bad news. The good news is we didn't crash your airplane. The bad news is we almost crashed airplane. probably the lumpy est. I ever got in my throat on a check. Ride was an engine out. Scenario of for up emergency landing and we're lining up and we're coming into a field and we're down pretty low and I said in on we're still and we were set up it was going to work We were going to be able to put this airplane in this field and most likely walkaway on hurt. And I sort of okay. Let's go around. And rather than adding power. The flaps went from full flaps to no flaps and that airplane just so. I'm not sure what came out of my mouth but it was probably things I shouldn't have said and you know we got the power in and and that didn't didn't turn out too well at the end of the day but I’ve only had to take over the airplane a couple of times one was Sugarland about a year ago and we had a pretty stout crosswind and I was really expecting the applicant to say let's discontinue because this is a little bit beyond my capability. But he was bounded term. Seventeen years old when we're all young and stupid like that you know we're bulletproof and and if I hadn't taken over the airplane we would've been somewhere the base the tower in the grass. It Sugarland. I had another guy at west Houston about a year ago. Or so and we were doing our takeoffs and landings are software shortfalls stuff right at the tail end of the check right neat done reasonably. Well it we've key was kind of marginal some things we reasonably well. But I said okay. Let's go into our our last takeoff and he pulls out on the runway before the airplane that landed before us. it clears the runway and applied. The throttle starts rolling down the runway. There's still an airplane on the runway. And I said why are we taking off with that airplane down there and he he panicked and he yanked back on the controls and we take off way before we were supposed to in any banks hard to the left. We had over towards that Vietnamese temple on the left-hand side of the field. And I mean oh my goodness that that was. That was exciting. Someone asked how to fail a check ride because that was three real good examples right there another question over 

Have two questions one when you have to take over. The yolk in emergency situation does that automatic failure and the second one is. Have you ever told somebody no. I'm not going to fly out you just too dangerous but the plane back down. I I question You know like with with the young man who got sick. I did have to take over the controls and He did not fail the check right. Okay but I. I would say in general if you're having to take the airplane it's probably not going to have the outcome that you want. And what was it. What was the second question. Oh oh yeah. Yeah yeah. I we are. We are required to when when we determined that the the outcome is not going to be satisfactory are required to tell them at that point now the we can. We can continue. We can continue the check ride knowing that the outcome is going to be an unsatisfactory but we can basically check off the other maneuvers. My experience is that it doesn't go. Well they told us in DPE school that sometimes that the applicant all of a sudden just goes and they relax and they do really well for the rest of the ride but that has not been my experience. They usually they if they try to continue it. Things go from bad to worse. But I’ll let these guys expand on that actually had exactly the opposite experience yesterday. As a matter of fact I was doing a check ride. I won't tell you where or who I was doing. A check ride yesterday and and the guy got lost on his cross country totally totally unaware of where he was. We ended up down near. Seeley when we're supposed to be near Brenham. And he just not a clue. And I I mean I let him go. I ask him some questions you know. Maybe there's some ways that we can get a little bigger picture about where we were trying to get him to climb I said are you know. Are there any landmarks around here that you can readily identify. And he finally realized the Brazos river and he city okay. Well I’m going to. I'll follow the river to the destination and to turn south and say we ended up in Sealy And and I said so you. Do you know where you are. He says yeah. That's Belleville right down there. okay Which were we flying. he's well we're flying west. Is there any road going west out of out of out of Belleville know what's in where are we. I don't know said well. I tell you what we're going to have to repeat this particular part of the check ride but if you want to continue. Let's go ahead and frankly just fine. He's praying the soft field. Repeat that again with did he just fine. So my experience hasn't always been that way I have an experience with Someone that Well if this happened to quite a few times actually the come in to land. But they'll be doing about one hundred miles an hour or something in a little Cessna one fifty or one seventy-two. And I know they're really nervous so I’m trying to cut him a break and I’ll say hey. What what's your normal approach. The literally I have had people tell me. Oh I like to be fast on like a hundred a little excessive. Don't you think so. I sometimes actually. I can't help. But I’ll just start laughing so hard that I mean I always. It's like okay. This ride has got to end. You know but I that this stuff really happens and so it's important you know. Cfi is to make sure your students can handle a little bit of stress I recommend that you always send him on a face checker. Something so that There used to like the pressure of somebody new. The other questions I here. Let's go come on all right here. We yeah hi. My name is Travis Good to see good to be here I I’m prepping for an instrument. 

Ride coming up I was just curious if you had any this. General advice for instruments students like Maybe some pitfalls or Like I’ve heard of the five-hundred-dollar button. Can you explain. That is all do I got the Five-hundred-dollar switch Is the switch that if you have a gps you toggle between gps mode and VOR. Mode is it'll say a veal lock and if you forget that switch you're definitely going to fail your check ride so watch out for that I don't know on instrument. Check rides. I look for. Does the person know every altitude. Like the AROCA. What is it guarantee. You the MEA is it guarantee you and you should at all times. No and how to defend yourself how you know you're not going to hit something so that's what I look for. I would say on an instrument. Check ride is is knowing you’re in your airplane A lot of these airplanes have a lot of automation and people. They're not really familiar with if first of all if it's in the airplane we're required to test the applicant on it. So if you got an airplane it's gotten autopilot or required to see you. Use the autopilot and I see lots of people in airplanes with autopilots. Oh I don't ever use that my instructor of show me how to do it and I said well that's not good right there because an auto parts great thing. Now we're not going to let you use it for one hundred percent of an instrument check ride but as you're setting up in you're trying to read that approach plate. Yeah that's that's what the autopilot is there for us. It but but not what. I what I also see is is the transition from the approach to the landing and Wanda talked about coming in too fast. Typically you know in the pattern in warriors won seventy twos. Our approach speed is around. Sixty-five knots something like that. Typically the approach be fly. Instrument approaches are ninety knots typically. Okay well you got to get from ninety-two sixty-five okay and in probably most of your instrument training. You don't really land out of an instrument approach except for maybe that last one you go out and maybe three or four approaches. You missed approach. Missed approach missed approach while ninety knots are a really nice speed to go to a missed approach but ninety knots is not a very nice speed to land the airplane so the transition from being under the hood or or in the clouds to the visual is is something that I think we really have become children of the magenta line. We really have and on situation. Awareness is is a is a huge issue so on on one of my check rides. And I suspect on on these as well. You're going to lose the moving map at some point for some period of time. And you better know where you are. cause I’m not going to give it back to your right away to find yourself so anyway. Word of the wise thinks more here are member on my last check. Ride at the DPE took my log book and he was just looking at it for and I was so nervous. What are you looking for. What what because. I was in their tab. What are you guys. Look for in a logbook when you start to check ride off. I'm looking for reasonableness young looking that you've you've met all the requirements. Let's say for a private okay. You're coming you got forty hours. You got three hours night. You get a three-hour hour of instrument. Time five hours of solo. Yeah five hours of solo cross country three hours of dual cross country. So I’m going through. And I’m I’m looking for all that I’m also looking for the long cross country. You got to have a leg over fifty miles in there. So I’m plugging it in four flight. I'm saying okay did from hooks to Conroe it's seventeen. Miles doesn't meet that and a lot of times. I see the same cross-country flight. So I know if they've gone from here up to Lufkin or something. I know that meets the requirement. I know the night cross country that most people like to do is from here down to Galveston. I know that meets the requirement real quick question on top of the question. How many of those times that people had something. Tabbed out was it not did not meet the standard More times than you think you know you two point nine of night. Yeah yeah exactly Ah maybe not so much because there's usually a night column but the one thing one column that you don't have in there is a solo cross-country column you got to solo column you got to cross country column but you don't have a solo cross-country column so that's something you have to go in and actually dig in and make sure that they've got that and a lot of times it's a they've they've logged at wrong okay. Well here's a cross country. I went from hooks to college station to Brenham and back and they did not put it in the cross country. Okay well we can fix that. That's easy but those are the those are the things. I'm looking for same thing but I’ll add this total up your columns on every page. Carry them forward. I can't count the number of times. I've seen a log book that every everything's then first of all night in its penciled in it's not totaled or or just slopping sloppiness things are crossed out and I it just sloppy logbooks. Maya ten goes up when I see a sloppy logbook. So remember this is a legal record that you're signing your testing the fact that you did these things and if your goal is to go to some point trust me when I tell you I mean he's guys know better than I do because I don't have one minute of Turbine time in my book the airlines are going to look at that stuff but they're going to pass it detail by detail. My right I I was flying with a guy who happen to do interviews for the united airlines. And they were interviewing someone and he was going through his log book and he saw an airplane that he knew he knew. The airplane was a twin Cessna and he felt like something was not going he. He felt like the guy. Applying for the job wasn't being honest and the guy had a ton of time in this particular airplane and the guy knew the owner the airplane and he said he texted him right there he said. Hey you know this guy. He's I’ve never heard of him. And I called him out right there he said. I know the owner this airplane. He said he doesn't know you. And the guy just went. Well you didn't get the job. I'm looking for like they said just making sure that they meet the requirements to take the test I’m thinking of a story that Once I went to do a check ride on an applicant and the someone at a flight school got a hold of me ahead of time and said the be careful. This person's really been a problem child. And I I kind of thought. Hey you should've worn examiner ever about the applicant. That's not fair. But I went into this check ride with an open. Mind trying to figure out. Why would they say that about this person. I took one look at this person's logbook and I immediately knew the problem. It's like day one lesson. One they went actual in the clouds for like an hour. I'm like nobody does that at all. And the whole first page of of the students logbook had hours and hours of actual instruments. And they're never ever in my thirty years of teaching. Have I ever taken a brand-new student in the clouds. It's just not the thing to do. So I went went to that white school owner and I told them. Hey here's your problem. You have instructors. That are literally not following any Syllabus that makes sense at all. So I I just look for things like that. That don't make sense with the training program and stuff so other questions one more time for about three more questions when I’m here Pat kind of touched on it When I started flying a. Gps and generation didn't Exist so nowadays when people are flying a lot of gps and stuff like that when you give them a check ride. Can students use that. I'm just curious on how that works with. Or is it still politics and VORs. And looking and I’ll add to that can we. Can we use Foreflight on our check ride. That's a common question we get so They have to show that they can use all equipment but they have to show that they know how to do pilotage and dead reckoning and so if they're tending to rely on like gps. A lot I tend to just shut that down and say okay. You lost us now. What are you going to do So they they have to know how to use everything the or they have to I've I have had. Maybe a half a dozen applicants not pass their check ride because they didn't know how to use VOR. Let's say So yeah they have to know how to use everything and we can use Foreflight flight. yes you can use that paper charts or Foreflight. Whatever you bring to the check ride. Make sure you know how to use it because it's real obvious if you're using Foreflight on your check ride and you don't know how to use it. It's sad because it's like you should have just showed up with your paper chart and I’m sure you would've done really well with it so just stick with what you're used to any other questions here. You know the questions. How about if I give you a t shirt. Anybody want to when I question now come on two more questions. I go ahead. I'll bring it to you again. So there's just a random question so for instrument check rides. It's obviously important to check your instruments to make sure they're working properly. Y'all look for RAIM checks in the check rides for instrument. Do and you know. We'll talk about that in the ground portion and I I wouldn't say that I haven't do so much in the airplane but we I haven't talked about it and understand what it is and more importantly what indication we'd have in airplane whatever equipment we have if we didn't have the proper satellite coverage. I can't add anything that's exactly the same. This is the RAIM check question Yeah all Most of the planes have WAAS nowadays. So I don't get very many applicants that are trying to do a RAIM. Check in the aircraft but it's nice when they acknowledge RAIM Like when you're shooting a. Gps approach an RNAV approach. It's good if the applicant is pointing out the different signals. That they're getting from their gps. I don't get very many applicants that are trying to do a rain. Check in the aircraft but it's nice when they acknowledge RAIM Like when you're shooting a. Gps approach an RNAV approach. It's good if the applicant is pointing out the different signals. That they're getting from their gps. I if it's green and if it says LPV it's good that they're acknowledging stuff like that but Yeah and it's good that they talk about RAIM on the instrument. Check rides are you typically seeing LPV approaches instead of ILS. Are you perfectly fine if they demonstrate LPV gps approach instead of the ILS. Or are you consistently looking to go to an airport where there's an actual ILS and then secondly with the technologically advanced aircraft. They have more tools like a flight director. We mentioned the autopilot before. But what about the flight director. Are you okay with them. Leaving that on all the time and having that just point them into a whole entry and into into an approach or are you having them shut off the flight director at this point most of them don't have the extra time to set the altitudes and heading so we don't see that a lot but for example I flew with someone yesterday who owned his own airplane and it had all that automation and I could see him. Just you know. Just following the the flight director through a check ride so First question about the ILS versus LPV approach. I do whatever's the quickest and easiest for the scenario for the day For instance a lot of times it's dictated by the aircraft they bring if they don't have a WAAS equipped aircraft than we have to go find an ILS So that'll make the decision If I happen to be at an airport that hasn't ILS. I like to shoot an ILS But I don't go out of my way to find an ILS if it's going to take a lot more time and let's see the the second one about the flight directors in the sophisticated aircraft My philosophy is if they have a sophisticated aircraft and they don't know how to use it. It's more dangerous or hazardous than not even having that aircraft. So for instance. If I have somebody that has their flight director going. It's not programed correctly and it's giving him Contradictory information and if they don't realize how bad that is to have the bad information coming out them those people. I usually don't pass them because I feel like they have the plane already. And it's very sophisticated. They're going to load up their family and go like the second you sign them off and the those are the people the For sure they just need more training and Yeah so I watch out for stuff like that. I don't have a whole lot to add about the ILS. In a perfect world. I'd like to do an ILS. But if the winds are howling out of I mean our our closest ILS around here is Conroe. And it's two one four. But at the winds are out of the north they may allow us to do an. ILS to the wrong runway They may not so in that case we have to either go. And at that point you got to commit to either college station or down to Sugarland And it it adds quite a bit of time to check right so if it is a loss airplane allow us to do an. ILS to the wrong runway They may not so in that case we have to either go. And at that point you got to commit to either college station or down to Sugarland And it it adds quite a bit of time to check right so if it is a WAAS airplane we do have that option of doing an LPV approach but I I agree with her about the technology. You you you got to be able to use it. in I seen so many people check rides in really nice fancy airplanes and and they're they're trying to use an autopilot and they're just sitting there and they're going it's not working. It's not working. And I’m I’m I’m over here. I'm saying just turn it off and fly the airplane. But they don't they don't and then we get moved to a very undesirable situation. And you know in the debrief. It's like why didn't you just shut it off and fly the airplane. Why didn't think you wanted me to do that. I want to do to safely accomplish. This approach. have I ever had something program wrong. Yeah I have But fly the airplane. Most I think most applicants are are waiting for us to say. It's okay if you do this or if it's you shouldn't do that or something. We can't do that. We're just we're observers. And I tell every applicant. I said I you've heard this before. PIC stands for pilot in command not passenger in crisis and by the airplane. Finding airplane like I was your sister brother. You know significant other your boss. Whatever and that's who's in the right seat you have to make those decisions. Accordingly so with to the flight director For me it'll be a mix you can use the flight director some time and some of the time. I’ll ask you to turn it off And as far as the ILS goes. If we've got one fairly close by just like you guys. I would prefer to do but if we have to do an LPV. That's okay to okay. We're about to wrap up the show. We had about ten minutes left. I wanted to say one last question that it’d like each of you to take a couple of seconds to answer. What what's the one thing. You guys have seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. What's the one thing that pilots noncommercial pilots should focus on in their training to become a better pilot. What's the you say systems. But what what's the thing that we should all be doing. What's the golden nugget you would pass on to all the listeners. I would say big picture. Make sure you have the big picture What what's our goal today. Are we just going out to go for a little little airplane ride or are we really trying to get somewhere but I don't.

We just going out to go for a little little airplane ride or are we really trying to get somewhere but I don't. I don't know if that's a very good answer. I'm here's a pass the mic to pat. And I’m going to be thinking about this. And I may say what he said but anyway so I’ll try to make it pithy. Then if you're going to repeat what. I said stay ahead of the airplane. You know there's that oh cliche about. Don't don't let the airplane get to where you know where you aren't ten minutes ahead of it or something along those my bliss true. Stay ahead of the airplane and the other thing that I see a lot on check rides is applicants. Just they land too fast. They're touching down. The airplane still flying. If I was in teaching mode during a check ride. If I was actually teaching mode what I would do is I’d reach back and pull back on the little bit and and and I guarantee you ninety percent of the time we would take right back off again so you got to slow down you got to be. You should ring out every single knot That you can possibly ring out of that airplane before you let it touch down. Just don't let it touchdown but the big picture like Wally he said Stay ahead of the airplane and the land and don't land to fast okay. I thought something. When I was a young pilot my father said to me one day he said what are you doing. When you're putting the seatbelt on and I. I looked like what do you mean. he said. You're strapping the airplane to your back. Your strapping the airplane to your back. You are flying the airplane. You're in control of the airplane. And a lotta times you hear the applicant and could say well. The airplane just did it. We'll know airplanes. Just didn't do it okay. You you made that airplane to so you're boss so fly the airplane. I like that one

You made that airplane to so you're boss so fly the airplane. I like that one strapped plan on The thing the advice I give people is to everything you do whether it's your airplane or the day before the flight Or if you're flying is what I meant to say is look for risk whether it's a oh going to oversleep and then I’m drive real fast to the airport. Oh that's a risk right there Look for anything. That's a risk to the safety of your your day. And try to mitigate it somehow so You know just whatever it happens to be. You know I. I get a lot of people that just always load. They're pane full of fuel. And it's like hey it's not always good to have full fuel like think about I just try to Look at everything and say. Is there a risk right. Now that I’m seeing and then would you do. That's my advice. I like Wanda’s a lot as a flight school owner. Who here's a lot of student pilots standing up front asking me to change my wind minimums so they can get out there and get one more hour of cross country. I don't take chances. Please Pat Wally Wanda. Thank you so much for joining us today and being on a live episode of behind the prop with that, Thanks. Fly safe and stay behind the prop.