Every pilot has to make the choice. Are you going to rent or are you going to buy. Both have their advantages, and both definitely have their disadvantages. Ownership is fun... but there are a ton of hidden costs and things that you need to be thinking about. Renting is simple, but it can get expensive. If you've ever thought about purchasing a plane, this week's episode is a must listen!
Wally has owned several airplanes over the years... and he currently owns two. Bobby operate a flight school and currently owns 12 aircraft! So when it comes to airplane ownership, you'll be hard pressed to find two more knowledgeable guys in the Houston area. Is owning an aircraft a good idea for you, or would renting be a better option? Listen to this week's episode of Behind The Prop to find out!
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What's up, Wally? Hey Bobby, how are you? I'm fantastic this week. We're going to go to the well of some of the things that our listeners asked us for and this probably came in four or five times. And if you have shown ideas please don't hesitate to send them our way we love to. Do you want us to do this. Week is all about aircraft ship versus renting aircraft. And I think when this comes up for me a lot it's normally about the the flight training portion, We both own I guess this is where I got one up on. You have twenty-four thousand flight hours. But I have twelve aircraft. You only have two So that's me versus you. But the ownership piece is one that that's how I ended up in this business. That's why on a flight school. Because I was thinking about buying a plane and I know you have two planes that you fly in your daughters have done. Their training in those aircraft as well Initial thought process to you while they when you say You own two aircraft what what made you buy two aircraft in. Did you think you'd almost work. Well I can go back to the full gamut of of aircraft ownership I have in my lifetime owned five airplanes partnership in one of them actually two of them And if prior to buying the current airplanes. We've had if you would've asked me the week before that. If I would ever on an airplane, I would look at you like you're crazy. I would think why would anybody in their right mind. One owns an airplane First airplane I ever owned was a was when I was a student pilot My family bought a a Cherokee one. Forty a piper one forty and again this is back in about nineteen eighty-two somewhere around there. We bought in nineteen sixty-nine model Piper Cherokee one forty paid eight thousand dollars for the airplane and I. It was not well equipped at had one nav calm and that was basically it and I got my private pilot's certificate in that airplane And you can sit here and say oh eight thousand dollars for an airplane What you have to consider. As at the time. I was working at a pizza place. A minimum wage is three dollars and thirty-five cents an hour today now with the legislative legislation that's before congress With a possible. Raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour. If you do the comparison that's equivalent to about thirty-five thousand dollars today. Which today you can't get a whole lot for thirty-five thousand dollars. But and who had that airplane. And I got my private in it and then really kind of outgrew the airplane. It wasn't equipped to do instrument training Other than basic instrument flying so ended up selling the airplane probably Eighteen months down the road for exactly what we paid for it. And I think at the end of the day if you actually. I did the math and say you know by the time we paid for insurance and in maintenance and everything We probably didn't really save a whole lot of money but It was actually a good experience to own an airplane Then we we bought into a partnership a piper arrow and that worked out. Really well until I moved away and the other partner bought our our share out and I was really done with aircraft ownership I got into the next airplane really by accident. I was At a social event in a a friend And I started talking. He mentioned that he owned. A bonanza and I think my eyes lit up on that. Because I asked him. I said a V-tail bonanza and he said yes. And then I I. It was funny. The questions I was asking him I said does deserve have a three bladed prop and he said yes and I thought oh boy and at that time was probably drooling a little bit and then he said well. We're looking for a third partner in the airplane. Would you be interested. And I so. What would it cost me. And he told me what it would cost me and it was. It was really affordable So we got. I got into that partnership and the partnership in that airplane worked great All three of us were economically and about the same place philosophically. We had the same philosophy as far as how we wanted to maintain the airplane and our our philosophy was If if we're going to take the cowling off. We were going to pay a professional mechanic to do it We weren't going to get out there and tinker with the airplane and you know other than putting fuel in it and adding oil and cleaning the airplane That was basically all we were going to do ourselves and through circumstances We ended up dissolving the partnership and selling the airplane. But at this point. I had already been bit bitten by the general aviation bug in the convenience of having my own airplane was was just too much in the meantime my daughters were learning to fly. So that's when we bought the one seventy-two. And when you were in the bonanza partnership this this wasn't in your college days this was this was later in life where you are a pilot this is. This is just five six years ago. Got you and so for those last thirty years in between you would you would have thought. That's crazy own a plane. I would've. I would've thought that you had cucumbers grown out of your ears. If you approached me about the the thought of owning an airplane. I think a why and why would anybody want to own an airplane. Had the headache of it. the hassle of it when when you can simply go out to an airport and go to flight school or an FBO. And rent an airplane and you were flying jets and find all over the world so you didn't need more flight time you're right. You then saw it more of a means toward your daughters and and other other things you're involved in so let's for the listeners breakdown. Really kind of what options are out there from an ownership verse renting perspective. Obviously, there's flight. Schools like united flight systems here in Houston that provide rental of high-quality aircraft with good avionics that You get to pick and choose from their handling the maintenance. They're they're caught. They've got some fleet insurance for doing some things. That's the rental route The next step up for that normally talk about. It's really the club option right. So right I am one of. Let's call it thirty to forty people that are paying monthly dues. Probably some sort of a small buy in into the club. That clubs probably In some way or another talking about adding aircraft improving or upgrading aircraft. There's there's probably a board or small group that's leading that that group. There's only a waiting list. Those are those are pretty Interesting groups of people all probably fairly similar who fly a little bit the give the benefits. They're probably less minimums if you want to take it on a long trip probably as a club member you get one long trip a year. Don't have to pay minimums etc. Someone's maintaining it or helping maintain it probably the the board of that group and you have access to the hangar in the aircraft. Probably when you want or the clubs have a problem and lose memberships and they'll have to figure that out right but You don't necessarily own it but you probably are a member owner of that club. They're all structured many different ways. Right right then they have the partnership like you talked about some group some smaller group one two three four five guys or girls have a similar desire. I see it on Facebook often. Hey I’m looking to get into a three-way partnership on Cherokee. Six any other to people out there interested That happens so normally there's a site set on type of aircraft normally performance matrix. Hey I want to people for cirrus something like that right so then you're really a one third partner in an aircraft normally an LLC of some sort that You and two to something. Sometimes for up to four other people are partners on that aircraft. And then you have to be like minded like you said. The philosophy in the financial components are very very big. You don't want well. I would say I wouldn't want to be in a partnership like that with someone who was so frugal. So cheap that if our front-seat started getting more out they they would not want participate one. Whatever their portion was to get that seat recovered right. Let to me. If I’m right. I think those of you those listeners. Who are of our age or older will remember a sitcom from back in the seventies probably called the odd couple. Maybe even in the sixties. I don't know but it was To two middle aged men who were roommates and they were just One was a slob and one was a neat freak and that that was the whole gist of the comedy is what the the odd couple they were. Different in on an aircraft partnership. I think one thing that you want to look at is to make sure that you all the partners. Philosophically are on the same page in words. Are we going to maintain the airplane. You may have one guy who who who is a tinker and he wants to come out and take that cowling off.
And and Do the oil change himself. gap the spark plugs or or whatever Or or whatever as you know allowed by the regulations Where you may have another partner. Who doesn't want to have anything to do with that and You know. I think that's the discussion. You certainly need to have with potential partners before you go in and other words. Okay if we need a to replace the The alternator are, we. Are we going to try to go for a rebuilt alternator. We trying to go for a new alternator Just add those discussions ahead of time so you know economically. You are hopefully Pulling the rope in the same direction. Yeah when I. I really got into aviation. If I found a friend of mine that I had worked with in Austin for many years was an aircraft owner. Much like this partnership with two other people and probably gave me one of my first few flights. I had been training but he came down. Pick me up and met in Galveston. I thought wow this guy. This came from Austin and we went to dinner and Galveston. How freaking goals that. And I don't remember what he had he since upgraded. But I want maybe it was an arrow. It was something I performance Of the Cherokee nature. I don't remember what it was exactly. But he came to pick me up low wing and he talked about the partnership the whole time he had a really cool partnership was the southwest captain. Who didn't fly very much. Meant the plane was available for him. They had A&P. There was part of the partnership that could do and did do all their work They would all help but that he would be the one signing off on that said work and then he was the third partner and he was just a tech sales guy who was a pilot right so They had what. I always thought man. That's the quintessential partnership you got a southwest captain who's not going to tear it up more than likely A&P. Who if he does tear it up can fix it and then me you know what I was dreaming about and I don't remember what he said is partnership cost but it was. It was not that much money in our housing on my gosh this is really obtainable at this point. And I think you made a really good point before we started recording that your alternators were always sixty six percent off when you bought one for that bonanza but yes there's two other people that are paying the other two-thirds right right and so it it didn't make the bite so hard when you know A twenty-one-hundred-dollar alternator was only seven hundred dollars almost felt like you're getting a good deal. You know one thing with a partnership. I think That you need to address early on is is scheduling. How are you going to schedule it with one of our airplanes what we did as my partner and I would would sit down and we would assign each other weeks and we'd start at the beginning of the month the beginning of the year and if the first of the year happened to fall, we would. We would start mid-week because we figured that most people won't when you took trips that would probably be a weekend trips so our our weeks went Wednesday to Tuesday and it's like okay. I get week one week two weeks. Three you get week fourth and so forth and and the way we did it is if you wanted to fly the airplane and it was your week. You just took the airplane if you wanted to fly the airplane and it was the other guys. We just called him up. And said hey. I want to take the airplane on February nineteenth. You you have anything going on and and there was never a conflict with my other. Partnership on the bonanza. We just had a google calendar and when somebody wanted to use the airplane. You just put your name on it and we would coordinate with each other. I remember there was one time where I I- scheduled airplane on Saturday to go to a local one hundred hamburger place and one of the partners called me up and said hey I you know I need. The airplane needs to go to Wyoming for something and it was it was pretty important and of course I just said yeah. Absolutely take the airplane I can. I can move my hamburger trip to next weekend so so that you know it's something that you certainly want to address Right off the bat. But I’ve we've never really had scheduling issues. But I could see it coming up. Possibly yeah and I would think I think they use to counter this gentleman that I was talking about from Austin and They I think he said maybe in the two years he was in the partnership they had one real conflict that they had resolve. And if that's all you really have to to worry about with a one third partnership in an aircraft that's that's pretty good So the next thing was really just outright ownership and that would be you the individual buying the plane you want and owning it. Obviously, things don't get split amongst your part partners And then you get to do whatever you want to do with that aircraft it there's no scheduling conflicts. There's no issues And I guess there's kind of theirs multiple stages of that how nice of an aircraft you do by I see a lot of times while they were someone by something.
And I i. I'm not even kidding. They outgrow at the first flight. They fly they. They almost bring it home. And they're like man. I want something bigger and faster. It's it's a never-ending chase. Yeah, to to buy vision jet no matter where they start. Yeah, vision jets the outcome and yeah. That's a little bit difficult to do for most somehow some what happens in not I guess not. Everyone understands us or knows this but there are people to buy planes like that. That then I guess get into a partnership with a flight school like this one and they would they lease that that aircraft back to a flight school and then the flight school operates that aircraft for them and then the the owner of the aircraft obviously uses the same scheduling system to book it whenever they want to. But it's much like a piece of rental property that that has a management company. That's managing that property for them. They they maintain it. They keep it. They ensure it they hangar. If if it's here we wash planes. We there's a there's a contract between the two of us but I think my leaseback partners are in pretty good hands here. And they get a lot of advantages for doing business with us but it takes a plan that may sit as an individual owner a plank can sit in the hangar or or on a strip somewhere for days if not weeks and never get flown And so there might be some disadvantages in some sense to lease back. There's there's a lot of advantages to keep that plane flying keep it maintained. Keep going And then not not have a perfectly good at working aircraft sitting on the tarmac somewhere. Just just getting a sunburn. Yeah, and I think people who want to buy an airplane will sell boy. I'm going to fly it every week and You know life gets in the way and weather gets in the way and You I mean. I find it would especially Saratoga. I mean I I sit there and I we have an app where we kind of keep track of the time and I go back and I say oh gee this airplane flown in three and a half weeks. I mean I try to you. Know I would like to fly it At least every couple of weeks just to keep things moving in keep key bearing lubricated and and so forth You know. I think I. I don't know what the average for a person owning an airplane. Not in a partnership just one person owning an airplane. I don't know what the average amount of time put on a general aviation airplane is I would venture to say the vast majority do not fly a hundred hours a year and You know that's that's that's two hours a week. An average of two hours a week I think pretty much every annual I have done on an airplane You know when they sign off an annual, they'll sign it off as one hundred hours. Well, I think. I'm within the hundred hours on pretty much. Every airplane I’ve ever owned With the exception of one seventy-two we have now which is flying a little bit more. We're actually going to have to do one hundred our inspection on it and so that to put that in perspective and then you start talking about the the expense thereof right. And how do your account for those expenses. Or how did you deduce that. So I guess we'll run through a little bit of math here right if One seventy-two rents for the hundred and twenty-five to one hundred forty dollars an hour. you know what. What's I going to cost you to operate that ten hours a month to get that back so right off the bat my math would be. I'll go on the high side of that safe. I'm going to spend fourteen hundred dollars a month if that convenience isn't worth that much to me for those ten hours then the amount of balance probably right off the bat and you go to a club. some clubs charged monthly dues of two hundred fifty bucks. And then you pay some. Some lesser amount will call it eighty to ninety dollars for every flight hour because they they've built in their maintenance in those sorts of things If that adds up to be more than that fourteen hundred dollars and you're going to flat ten hours a month. You got to the big difference. There really is convenience right with right the money the likelihood that you ever do it cheaper than just renting is probably fairly unlikely if you if you only flat ten hours a month right and when you say convenience, I would say scheduling convenience because You know an of our Our our Saratoga, We came in a couple of weeks ago and and determined that we had a nav light inop You know and if I had rented that airplane. I could have just gone to the front desk. Say the left. Nave light on. The airplane is out And gone home. And I worried about. It's not my expense and so You know buying a new light bulb and putting it in myself and realizing that it wasn't the light at all it was the power supply and six hundred dollars later I have a A working nav light which it had to be done but You know that's the advantage of renting.
It's not your problem. it. I mean it's problem to Make the appropriate squawk and let the the owner know about it but You know if it is your airplane. It's your financial burden and I. I'm almost numb to bad news. Nowadays I mean you hear something that's wrong and I am worst case scenario guy in most cases already so I always think the worst since we met this morning. I got a text for mechanic the said. Can you come look at this. That's probably the most disheartening text messages. That I can ever get. This one was nothing so it was just something he wanted to show me. Thank goodness there was no There was no four-digit price. Tag coming at the end of this one time so it can weigh on you In again that's where I think you have to have a mindset of. I'm going to maintain this stuff at this level and stick to that or or yield us. You will drive your anxiety level through the roof for sure. Oh definitely I get my mechanic will call me and give me updates. And it's like you said it's he usually doesn't tell me good news. It's usually bad news. And there have been times. Where I’ve I’ve gotten a text from him as call me when you can and I have put off the call because I was maybe in the middle of doing something on thinking. Oh boy. I don't want this extra anxiety and when I did call him, he so I just want to let you know we We've got it the airplane all done With the exception of one little thing and we expect to have that down tomorrow morning and we should have y'all buttoned up by noon tomorrow and and and sit. There sat there in silence going okay. Wh- what else. Oh that's it okay. Well that was. That was not painful at all. So I think. I've seen it on. I've seen on Facebook memes and other things if you can't take a hundred dollar bill out of your while right now just light on fire. You should never by plane. I don't think it's quite that bad but at the same time there there are things that are going to surprise you and if we just stick to that math or second say fourteen hundred dollars a month. That's going to go pretty quick in the aviation world right you. Your fuel is going to be your biggest expense more than likely Today at this airport it's four twenty-four. A gallon you're going to do at least was say for math will say ten gallons an hour right. So that's forty-two dollars an hour fuel ten hours. Four hundred twenty something dollars in fuel hangers going to be three or four five hundred bucks so just. The fuel in the hangar is going to be eight hundred dollars is going to take over half of that money right out of your right out of your till for what you're thinking about from a rental perspective or what it would cost to rent for those ten hours so Lots to think about their never mind insurance never mind hold backs for engine Bags for insurance and stuff like that. I joke when people say you must be making. Hey you own busy flight school. They don't understand the inner workings in just. How there's a lot of hidden costs in there that It's pretty amazing. You can go rent a very expensive aircraft for hundred and fifty dollars an hour and go rent it comeback squawk things and get your car and drive home and never think of the wiser of it. there's a lot that goes into maintaining that aircraft for sure. I would just say if you are thinking about aircraft ownership really get down and think of the mission that you're you're buying the airplane for my buy is is this something to go piddle around with on weekends Or do I really want to use this airplane as a cruiser. Do I want to use it to go places to want to take family with me You know. I think if if you wanted to go places, I would say you're probably not going to be really happy with a one seventy-two or or warrior. You're going to outgrow that. Because you're going to say Jesus thing only does One hundred knots one hundred and five knots or whatever. You're I think you're going to want something. Bigger and bigger is more expensive. Higher insurance premiums all that kind of stuff so just just be very careful about the mission and You know try to find an airplane that meets the mission. Yeah, that's a great point We talked about many people. That I’ve talked to outgrow the aircraft on the first flight and they want more than one more If you can't afford what you really need or want. I would caution you on trying to meet somewhere halfway. You'll you'll just never be happy with it. You won't end up using it. And it'll be a hangar rat that that unfortunately would sit right But it could be the perfect aircraft for someone else's needs Think that way.
I get asked quite a bit and this is something we didn't talk about but I I can find twin engine aircraft so much cheaper. Are they really twice as much to operate in afford and keep or not. I think to my perspective. I own a twin engine. Aircraft is quite nice Quite powerful could get you really around the country if you wanted to but it. There's a safety mechanism that. I don't think people think about their two folds. I guess one you probably are less likely to have an incident that would make you need land force landing because you've got those two engines but if you're not a proficient twin engine pilot that's that's a lot to handle So make sure you are proficient the you really know the aircraft And don't just depend on it but they might be a little cheaper and trade a plane those sorts of things but it is twice the fuel twice the pro twice the engine twice. The annual always got gear that they have to fix or look at on those annual inspections. So it does get a lot more expensive to operate at twin And I’m just not sure. I if I had my pick between the one eighty-two and the twin. I'm probably flying the one eight to somewhere. Just because I’m only losing about eight knots right. And I can definitely land that one eight two and a lot tighter spots if I was forced to land. And it's just not as much aircraft so single pilot resource me and my family and not crew. I'm taking the one eight to ninety five percent time for sure. Well and and the concept that it's very simple concept but something to think about in a twin-engine airplane. You're twice as likely to have an engine failure than in a single engine airplane. He's got two engines so You know the likelihood of something going wrong mechanically is double because you've got double the parts now the the math equation that I always use in a single engine airplane one minus one is zero in other words. She got one engine that one engine quits. You've zero and in a twin-engine airplane to minus one is still one. You've got one left so you I mean there. There are some advantages to it. I was up at my Airport about a year ago. And I buy a hangar of a friend. Who owned a baron. He doesn't have the baron anymore. He's got a bonanza at the time he had a baron and he was doing he was changing the spark plugs. And I just started doing the math at the time. All I had was the one seventy-two. So I had a one seventy-two. Four-cylinder engine So total of eight spark plugs. And I’m just doing the math. And I’m going okay About thirty dollars apiece for spark plugs about two hundred and forty dollars to change the spark plugs. And I’m looking at his airplane six cylinders times to Twelve cylinders. that's twenty-four spark plugs. That's seven hundred and fifty dollars to change the spark plugs and his airplane. So I kind of want. Wow that's a game changer. Right there yeah and the fuel burned mean you're talking two hundred eighty horse two hundred horsepower. Engines maybe two forty s on each side and on a baron. That's going to be twenty-five gallons an hour. Yeah, so you might get there quicker but you're going to spend a lot more money in that the year in the air for sure right. So what one real quick recap. We talked a little bit about renting. We talked about the clubs. We talked about partnerships we talked about ownership partial ownership and then maybe even leasing back to a flight school. Lots of different options out there. If you want to be an aircraft owner given individual question don’t be afraid to email Bobby@behindtheprop.com and Wally@behindtheprop.com as always. They say fly safe and stable.
Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This shoe is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!