Jessica Garcia is a first officer for Southwest Airlines, and a former corporate pilot and flight instructor... and she got her start instructing right here at United Flight Systems in Houston, TX! She is also the Co-President of the local chapter of Women in Aviation. Jessica shares her experience learning to fly in Texas, and eventually going on to overcome incredible adversity and fly the massive Boeing 737!
Women make up 50% of the population... but only account for about 6% of pilots in the United States. Jessica is on a mission to raise that number! To learn more about the Houston Chapter of Women in Aviation, visit WAIHouston.org.
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What's up. Wally? Hey Bobby, how are you? I'm great. this is our third guest and we are excited to have her on the show today with us as a past flight instructor from United Flight Systems current Southwest airlines first officer and someone with a very interesting aviation story that we're going to talk about today. We have on the show Jessica Garcia. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
And I know We're going to talk a lot about today but you also have to be married to a pilot as well my wonderful husband, Ricky, who also instructed here structure. And I heard good news for Ricky recently. Is that true. He got hired at Commute Air airlines. Friday. very excited.
and so he was an express jet in lives in Houston listened to show. They probably have heard about all the things that happened. Express jet so it's great to hear that Ricky’s back in the in the in the cockpit. Doing great things for aviation. He’s really excited. I'm pumped for him. He's ready to get back in the airplane.
so we have a lot to talk about today but as the current owner of united flight systems. It's an it's a great time when a previous flight search comes back and shares with me stories and things from the past. You've obviously spent many an hour behind a prop as an airplane owner still today. You spend a lot of time on the probe had any idea How many hours do will you gave here at this flight school?
Oh it's got to be at least twelve hundred I remember one day sitting down with my logbook in between students. And I recognized that my total dual received in total dual given was equal. So I surpassed that milestone here and then I think I want to say about twelve hundred dollars instructing here
nice and that that was that in the day where you could just get the fifteen hundred right to the airline
sort of. I was in the weird transition area where the atp was being required by the by the regional airlines to get hired. But it what you didn't have to do the atp course so I ended up being able to do my atp on my own without having to the course but you still have to have the fifteen hundred hours so kind of an awkward phase. I think I got my atp in June and the law passed in august ATP.
I guess for our listeners. We've obviously prepped and talked a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your aviation career where he went to college, How you found this place and then did you go right to the airlines are or what will happen there.
So I started flying recreationally in Abilene Texas. Where I’m from. Just doing it for fun. I grew up flying with my dad in the right seat of various aircraft 182s, bonanzas, barons, and the end of my freshman year of college. He said okay. You can go to summer school, You can get a job, or you can get your pilot's license. and so I opted to go get my pilot's license obviously and had an a wonderful instructor. Who is now one, She is my best friend. We are incredibly close. She flies for FedEx and she said you know. You're kind of good at this. Have you considered doing it as a career? and up until that point I hadn't been exposed to the opportunities in careers in aviation. so she took me to my first women in aviation conference and it was like being around thousands of my typa-A Best friends And they all took me by the hand. I was nineteen years old. And said we're going to show you what it means to be a professional pilot and I decided right then and there that was going to be my career up until then I was studying marketing. And liked it but didn't love it. so went back to Abilene finished my instrument rating then I transferred to Louisiana tech university where I finished my commercial, Cfi, cfii and mei. I instructed for the school for a few months loved being attack. I'm very proud Louisiana tech bulldog and but it wasn't building flight time quite quick enough and so a friend of mine called me and said there's a flight school in Houston. I think you'd be a great fit at. Would you Consider interviewing? so I called united flight systems. Talk to the previous owner. Bob watts and his daughter Laura and they brought us in for an interview me and my husband. I secretly brought my husband along with me to interview as well. And we they us right then and there. and so within a month. I moved Houston and began Instructing here instructed for, I guess it would have been about two and a half years. and then had one of my workers official instructor Here come into my office and say would you like to fly corporate? And I’d always been really interested in corporate aviation I grew up around general aviation being there in Abilene. We had a little bit of a regional airline flying but not a lot. So I had more exposure to corporate.
And I said sure didn't know what the airplane was had. Never heard of. It was a Cessna Conquest twin engine turboprop. and met with the woman who was flying that airplane and we went and just had dinner and chit chatted and she said, I think you'd be a great fit. Would you come fly with me? So that was my introduction to part one thirty-five. Flew for them for a couple of years. loved it. That was a flu for a family. There's still a dear and special in my life. The woman I flew with is still very dear to me. We get together as often as we can being two pilots. And so that kind of started me on a different trajectory was like I said the fifteen hundred hours was required at the time. Ricky got to his fifteen hundred faster than I did. We were newly married and the regional airline pay was such that we both couldn't necessarily go to the regional airlines and pay our bills so corporate gave me a little bit of a chance to do what I wanted to do. But also make a little bit more money. and so he continued on with ExpressJet and I went the path of corporate. Flew everything from hawker Four thousand, to barons, to conquests, citations, ended up my last job I flew clear Seventy-five which is still one of my favorite airplanes to this day and loved corporate. but knew I needed some stability and you needed some balance in my life in terms of we were wanting to have a family in the schedule was just getting to be a little bit much for me and so I just threw my application at southwest. and very quickly very fortunately got an interview and have been there for just over a year and a half now.
Wow and so that's pre pandemic. are you flying very much right now or is it a little bit less than it was early less than it was early on?
You know when I started, I was flying. I was based in Oakland. And I was fairly junior but was still flying a lot got based in Houston February of this year about what has happened to this year and even know what day it is. And when I got when I got based here in Houston I went on reserve and didn't fly very much. Particularly once march came around. We know it all happened there. so not flying as much here lately.
so you brought up the women in aviation. Wally, you have a couple of daughters that are aviators in some form or another. They assume they're members of women of aviation here in Houston. Yeah, and they enjoy going to the national conferences. and My oldest daughter especially my youngest daughter is Got one month left in college. Up in Monroe Louisiana university Louisiana Monroe who were supposed to play Louisiana tech and football had our tickets, but Thanks to this covid thing. we're not going to do that anyway. that's a that's a different show idea but yeah so hopefully my. My younger daughter will get involved in as well.
and we miss the, But you're actually now The president of the local chapter of the women for women aviation Houston. co-president, I share it with candy wyndham. Who is fabulous.
nice and so Before we jump in thing let's talk a little bit about women aviation. I've been aware of the group since I took over the flight school. I think we met briefly early on and talked And I’ve tried to open our doors and make it a classroom thing available. but honestly, I don't really know what the goals other than introducing women to aviation are. tell the listeners A little bit about women in aviation and if they are so inclined what could they do to participate or actually get involved.
so one of my favorite subjects. I'm so passionate about women In aviation. I attribute so many milestones in my career to that organization. The goal of women aviation is to further aviation career is not just for women but for men well but to further for women in aviation in all aspects. doesn't matter if you're a pilot and air traffic controller management we have engineers we have f. b. o. Operators, owners. it It's every aspect that you can think of that Aviation touches. and the goal is just to network to provide resources to provide scholarships. to provide community For women in the aviation industry so here on the local Houston, we have about two hundred people that are involved. about the at any given time. We have forty to fifty that are active. We do quarterly meetings. And it gives us a chance to talk about what events we want to host in the Houston area. what events We want to be a part of that already taking place wings over Houston or any other type of fundraising event. We do provide scholarships in the local level as well as the international level. They have given out when I say millions. I mean millions and millions of dollars of scholarships. And so it's a chance for on the local Houston level for us to get to know our local group and network just this last meeting.
We had one of our members Say hey I know of a couple of jobs that are available, Who can I talk to That may be interested in them? Another one works for an app company here locally and she said I may be able to help people find jobs. so it's beyond just the international organization on the local level. It's all about community and it's a chance for us to know each other you know we're kind of small but mighty group. I don't know the exact statistics for other demographics at aviation but for female pilots It's only about six percent. and so we're trying to raise that number. be it through good networking through Encouraging young girls to pursue careers in aviation. It's a chance for us to reach them directly.
for me When I first aviation I don't I don't it's to me. It's weird. didn't know how to even get started right. Most would assume we've all kind of been around this for a while the you would go to a flight school and start flying. I mean that makes sense to me. But I can remember. There was this level of anxiety of not wanting to even come in here. I had a friend who said go meet Bob at united flight systems. He'll help you. And I probably drove past the entrance here multiple times because there was this level of anxiety. What am I going to go in And ask about? Like and I remember walking in saying I’d like to learn how to fly and there was somebody who said well you came in the right place and I already felt like I was defeated a little bit like I know. But that's not how I wanted you to talk. so what kind of people should come to your events? I guess building up to. I bet there's a lot of people out there that maybe listens. Podcast says. well I want. I'd like to go to women in aviation input. I don't want to be the odd woman out. I don't want to be someone who doesn't know what to talk about.
I'm really glad you brought that up because we had several this last meeting that we just hosted. I would say more than half of our people that came to the meeting were new members That had never been before. and taking that first step is really difficult. No matter what you're stepping into the flight school or the chapter of an organization it's intimidating. and I am the first to admit that. Even for me now having experienced so many things that I have in the industry it's still scary to walk to somebody new and introduce myself.
someone who's never even taken a listen. It's going to come right you a first officer southwest like that's unfathomable to someone who has never flown a plane before.
well Fortunately I’m not sitting there in my uniform so hopefully I don't look to intimidate and I don't think I’ll look at dating and my uniform anyway. So but no. It's hard. But I can't encourage anybody more to say just do it. Just don't be afraid. Just walk in and say hello. We had one woman, bless her heart, She was all the way down on the south side of town. She had an appointment. She wasn't able to make the meeting but she drove up here just to say hi After the meeting was over, we were all standing around talking. and it was awesome that she had the courage which I get it, Not everybody feels comfortable doing that but just do it. She had the courage to come up And say I just wanted to come meets you and say hi and see what this is all about. So but if you're too nervous to come to a meeting come up to us at one or the other events that were at. We are at events all the time. All around town through Lone star college system. We've done lots of the recruiting events at Different airlines we always try to have a table set up wherever we are. Come say hi come grab as come. Say I’m so and so I’m a little bit interested in organization but I don't even know where to start. Find a friendly face or bring a friend. even if somebody who's not in aviation, bring a friend because we are excited to meet everybody. and it gives that if that's a little bit of a security blanket for you than come do it. but it's worth it. that the biggest thing I want to express is that it is so worth it; no matter if you're getting involved in women in aviation our eaa or young eagles or any of the other organizations. it's worth it to get plugged in and get build your own community and build your tribe as you're starting your aviation journey. because it's a little bit lonely when you're getting started it's you and maybe your instructor and if you're at a big flight school then you may have a more connection more interaction but it can be really lonely especially if you don't have a friend or a spouse or somebody that flies as Well so just do it.
Bobby you bring up an excellent point. You're talking about walking into a flight school and It's almost as if we're going off script a little bit but as an examiner, I get to sit in the corner a lot at flight Schools. and I watched people walk in the front door and I cringe at some of the things I hear being told to these potential customers because I think most people that that work the front desk of the schools most the time, we refer to them as dispatchers.
They're very skilled in how to how to give the keys to the Cessna. One seventy-two a new student and maybe Look at the wind and see if they're ok to go fly this airplane solo and that kind of stuff. But I don't think a lot of the dispatchers are trained very well in Salesmanship. and I don't mean that in a negative way but People that just the fact that they're walking in the door says there they got an interest. so I think, I think our flight schools could do a better job in promoting aviation and selling the idea to people.
no doubt and just getting them excited. I think We had Devin miller on the show Recently. We talk about the Devin Miller Affect all time a guy who walked in and said I want to fly. Who's spent a small fortune here. Bought three planes. We've been partners on lease backs and if he would have been not sold to or been mismanaged in any way, where might he be? What would how many Devin miller effects are we don't know about remember that were bad? and that just makes me vomit a little bit. I get nervous to think how many times we lose a great customer like Devin. Because of that and I would think an organization like yours, You feel the same way. You don't want to miss out on the opportunity to introduce a woman to aviation. You mentioned membership is their membership that they have to join before they come to an event? how do they find events? How would you suggest a woman or man that wants to help women in aviation how would they get involved?
To join women in aviation international. Wai.org, women in aviation international dot org and membership. It's around forty-five dollars for a full membership. They have since student memberships discounted as well. And I encourage everybody to be sure you join the international organization it will pay out in dividends. You have access. To all the scholarships you have access to conference. You have access to send you a magazine that is filled with inspirational articles and good information. on the local level, You can visit waiHouston.org and that website has information about our upcoming meetings events that we may be a part of, how to apply. But I encourage anybody who's lightly interested: Don't join just yet come meet us. Come sit through a meeting. Come introduce yourself and then if you say: yep, this is my tribe. This is where I want to be which we hope you are then. We'll talk about membership. It's twenty dollars for full membership ten dollars per student membership. Also don't let that deter you. if that's something that you can't pocket right now. come talk to me. I’ll either pay your membership or I’ll waive the fee. I want you to be involved. I want you to find your tribe in with us. So I really encourage anybody that's interested or you can email me email me, get in contact with me. Let's talk about it. We also have a Facebook group woman in aviation Houston chapter. There's a couple of questions on there. That's just to be sure that art group is nice and secure for everybody for everybody's safety Feel free to join there as well to get information about upcoming meetings.
awesome. So you've been involved in the group for a long longtime, Obviously. what you find most valuable about the women aviation group?
my people. It's I love to fly. I love airplanes. I love airports but aviation to me is all about people. and it's all about the interactions that I get to have. I have met some of the most outstanding people through women in aviation. my best friends in the Houston area are through by women in aviation chapter. And that's not just a coincidence. You know you get a lot of like-minded individuals in one place; You're going to bond. A lot of us are around the same age, but there are a lot of us that are not around the same age. I've got friends that are twenty, I've got friends that are sixty and older that are involved in the chapter. so for me The value is that. But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the scholarships, I've been fortunate to be. A recipient of several of the scholarships through the organization. And I can one hundred percent without any doubt in my mind Say the owe my job today to a woman in aviation scholarship I've received type ratings through them. I've received financial aid through them and then was fortunate to meet the right people through. Southwest through him in aviation scholarships as well.
Well that's big. You also told me before. We started recording that the annual conferences were a big deal to you. What tell me a little bit about the annual conference.
I love the annual conference. It's typically in march every year. It rotates location. They're running out of places that we fit because it's gotten so big every year. This year upcoming is going to be in Reno, Nevada. Love the reno conference. It's so much fun and it's a chance for we have seminars. We have guest speakers we have.
There are booths with all of the players in the industry and some of the minor ones. That said booths and areas that you can walk around and introduce yourself and meet people. probably the neatest thing though is some of the guest speakers in some of the seminars that you can go to. I went to one That was all about imposter syndrome and how to overcome that. I've been to wasp seminars Where the women air force service pilots who were the first air force pilots, The first female air force pilots allowed into the military to fly. They've all gotten up to speak. And you want to talk about inspirational and motivational. You hear their story That's all you need to say: okay. I'm ready. Let's go fly We've had engineers from NASA. There was one year several years ago that this woman was talking about one of the mars rovers. She was one of the lead engineers on the mar’s rover. There was not a dry eye in the audience. Now how this woman could make some an inanimate object so lifelike and so meaningful to an audience. and it wasn't just women who were crying so let's not play the emotional card. Everybody was tearing up. And it was coincidental that the rover was landing Two days later. I guarantee every single person that was sitting in that room watched that mars rover landing. It meant so much to us. So just exposure to things that you wouldn't be exposed to otherwise that's how I got my exposure to corporate aviation. I met a woman who owned an f. b. o. And a fleet of aircraft. I said that sounds like fun. That sounds like something that I would like to do. And it's also a chance we sit. We kick kickoff our shoes. We go have a drink at the end of the day and sit down and meet people that we wouldn't have met otherwise. so especially aviation you can be so disconnected because you're based in different places. You live in different cities. It's a chance for us all to come together and reconnect and connect make new connections and new networks.
awesome. So if you're listening to go learn more about women in aviation come to an event, meet Jessica gets an adjusted guy gets another whole the whole group and as she said. Find your tribe for sure in the women in aviation. so the one unique thin. We've talked a lot about it, There's something unique about your aviation career that not all of us Get to participate in. Tell us a little bit, So I don't spoil it I guess tell us a little bit about what is unique about Jessica and your story around aviation?
so probably one of the most unique things about me is that I’m blind in one eye. and it happened to me when I was sixteen. I had a disease called Acanthamoeba Keratitis. that is an amoeba, You learn about biology, Got in my eye and it required some pretty strong eyedrops and medications to kill it but it resulted in the fact that mike cornea is used with no chance of being able to wear contact lens or anything. and so I have what's called a statement of demonstrated ability as soda which the faa granted Me to say that I am legal to hold a first class medical to fly commercially.
That is pretty unique so I think I learned about soda. I recently when I’ve been working on getting my instructor license. It's going so much still be taking time for me to get my instructor license. but Not too many people know that There's these ways that you can get a special medical. I would say, I would have thought up until a few months ago that I had have perfect vision to be a pilot right. Don't you have to have perfect vision to the pilot?
that's kind of one of the fallacies of the aviation industry. And I think it's a carryover from the military. I think that the military requirements are much stricter in there were so many years that most professional pilots came from military backgrounds. But there are so many different things that you can get a soda for. And for me was a It was a no brainer that I wanted to fly. It was a question of Could I get a medical. and it was a question of Could I find the right person to help me through that process and what that meant. especially being in small town west Texas. We didn't have a lot of ame's and didn't have a lot of resources. In fact I had a lot of ame, airmen Medical examiner. had a lot that Turned me away. And I think it was just because they didn't know I never was denied for a medical. I just I would call and explain my situation. While you mentioned the people at the front desk, the dispatchers, had a lot of people at the front desk of the of the doctor's offices say we don't do that or no. you can't get a medical. I think they just weren't informed and didn't know, which is not their fault. But yeah, it was just finding the right person to help me obtain that that statement of demonstrated ability. That that made the difference for me.
Yes, so You have obviously these phone calls these medical offices and they turn you away. What was the What was the group like that said that they would help you? What was different or what made the difference for you?
so going back to find your tribe There was a local pilot.
Who's one of my dad's best friends who my dad explains the situation. He said I’ve got an ame that will That should be able to help her. And so I had to travel a little bit. He was in Brownwood. And I went in. And at that point I was just flying recreationally. I had no intention flying professionally. I was just going for my third class medical. Because I thought this is just going to be a weekend activity for me. And so Made the call. He said yeah. I'll see you. Let's see what we can do. When in for the exam I was nineteen. I was really pretty good shape at that point. It came to the eye test. And obviously I failed the test, because you can't pass it because of my vision. and so what at that point what did was put in an order for the faa to look at my file. And unfortunately, I don't know exactly what steps the ame takes. That's a great question for your locally ame. But he put in the request for the soda to be done. and thankfully one thing he did for me, That was a bonus as he said I'm going to go ahead and test you for a second class just to just to cover all of our basis. so without me even really knowing at that point and back then the computer software was different for obtaining aviation medical. He went ahead and to a second class. So it went to the local FISDO which was Lubbock and the fiscal Got in contact with me and we set up a flight test, and I went up within a fantastic faa representative. It was a great first exposure to working with the local FISDO. and so We went into the flight test and it was fairly straightforward. It was he was asking me questions about identifying objects on the ground, identifying objects in the air. He made sure that I could pick a suitable landing site for an off-field landing if necessary, He had me demonstrate several landings to be sure My depth perception was adequate. And at that point, I was issued my second-class soda so later had upgrade one to a first class. went through another with the same avenues again and upgraded to a first class, but Once it's done it's done as long as there's no changer Progression to my vision. I don't do the test again. I carry it with my medical. If I am requested to present my medical, I go ahead and presented at the same time. once it's done it's fairly straightforward pretty easy and most people don't even know that I’m blind one eye. I'm happy to talk about it. I'm not ashamed of it. I'm happy to an. I love helping other people That think that it may be something that inhibits them from flying. I love telling them that It's not.
that's awesome. a question Just pops into my head which is okay we go back and get our medical or whatever until interval. We have to get our medical as you said. Once it's done it's done surely you still go get some sort of a medical yet. That don't misunderstand that one.
yeah, I still go for my first class medical every year. I have to keep a first class for my job But when I go for my medical. Especially if I’m going to new ame I present my soda and explain to them that I will most likely not be able to pass the eye exam. And so at that point they do the eye exam up to the point that I can I can pass it And then that's it. I don't know what they do on their end that that shows it. But it's I walk away with my first class medical. so yes, still have to do medicals every year. Still do the I test every year. I just explained that. I won't be able to pass the left eye vision. Portion of the test makes less sense.
And i have. I don't have perfect vision. I'm wearing glasses. And I have to wear glasses now while I fly And I could pass that. That would be solved for me personally. while you've been in aviation for a long time any other interesting sodas that you've seen or participated around or with? I think for me it's inspirational for our listeners To know. I might have a problem but that problem might not prevent me from being a professional pilot.
I would ask. Just what made you keep going back. In other words. If I went down if I if I went down to the Houston rockets right now. It says I want to try out for your basketball team. And they said well. You can't jump and you can't run and you can't shoot. I would I would probably walk away and say well. Okay I i wouldn't come back tomorrow and say can I try this again. so when you when the first ame turn you away obviously you didn't take no. You came back. What inspired that?
I think at any age but particularly nineteen If somebody told me I couldn't do something that just made me want to do it that much more. I don't know that there was anything in particular that said I'm just going to keep trying. I just knew that I was going to do it. And I was going to keep trying. At that point. I had done my own research and seeing that there were regulations that allowed me to hold the soda so I knew it was possible, but I just didn't let the naysayers discouraged me and I just kept going.
I don't know. I had a lot of cheerleaders that said we know we know this is possible. We just have to find the right person.
This isn't an aviation story. This is a life story. You know it just says if you if you want something Keep going don't give up. no doubt. don't give up I. I’m not sure that thing with me and the rockets will work out but potential. Okay you look good new jersey thank.
as it relates to a said the never giving up do other people that are aware of this that you have a deficiency? I don't know what the right way to put it as do They think that you can't be as good of a pilot as anyone ever challenged such away?
No, Never more often than not. Like I said I most people don't even know I would say probably the only thing that triggers people's particularly when I was flight instructing sitting in the right seat If a student was flying, I'd have to turn a little bit further over to the left to be able to see what their panel was doing thankfully with experience and Wally, I'm sure you can attest to this. That I’ve gotten our can look out the window and know what they're doing. I can feel the if their uncoordinated in my seat. I can feel your speeds get in too slow or too fast. I can hear it. Your senses takeover. A little bit. And I think that's true for instructors have to good functioning eyes they do that. But no I don't think anybody has ever stopped me and said oh You shouldn't be doing that or you're not capable of that. I kind of proven that that's possible.
Sure well I think before so record was joking with Wally. I flown with many a rated pilot Who have to good is instill Don't look at it to see things. So I’m not sure that's the most reference -able point there for sure. so Congratulations on overcoming something That there really isn't the end of the world. now I’d tell the listeners. I've talked to people who've had two things to get over medical milestones in their aviation careers. It is possible. Don't give up. I think we would recommend. We're not doctors. We would recommend probably contacting the AOPA and their medical hotline to start that process. If you don't have friends and family points in the right direction. and then do your part to find a good ame that can help you. I don't know that Some suggestions here locally. If you're in local give me a call or email. Me bobby@behindtheprop.com. I'll try and point to an ame They might be able to help. but Start with AOPA would say we would all think don't get denied. That would be the one setback once. You're denied that's something that's pretty difficult to overcome. It is possible, but You'll have that little check box on you on you on your records forever that you have been denied at some point for medical. so start with AOPA then an AME and go with that. Anything to wrap with, Wally, As it relates to Jessica. I'm sure this is hopefully part One of more than one part with Jessica as she has her career continues? No just thanks for being here and I will say if we have any listeners out there who have questions for her, If you email Bobby or myself, We can certainly get to her About sodas or anything like that. But it's something that Quite honestly, I'm not very familiar with so. This was a very educational experience for eighty to hear your story.
I'd love to anybody That has questions. I would love to answer them. That it's so special to be able to help somebody overcome a medical issue. The best I can. if someone's listening and they want to find the best way to find you come into a Houston women aviation event. Probably
absolutely come on.
all right, so with that We'll wrap up as always fly safe and stay behind the prop. Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This shoe is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!